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  • I Ship It

    Have we got a thread for this?

    The other day I was thinking about how completely the Dullena relationship has ruined The Vampire Diaries for me. I was never ophy-level invested (who could be?) but TVD, along with Gossip Girl, had piqued my interest in teen TV and its fandoms for the first time in years. Blair going back to Chuck killed GG for me, even though I have discovered that I can still rewatch and enjoy everything up to about ep 5.21. Shipping ruins shows when things don't go the way you want and triangles ensure that you are going to hate what you're watching at least half of the time. (That said, I don't think I've ever truly been invested in a show where I haven't had a ship.)

    After I spent an hour or two on bitter thoughts about Dullena and Chair, I started to think about the whys? of shipping.There's a fair amount of overlap between Chair and Dullena shippers (evidence: FanForum sigs lists) and between Dair and P/Jo, both of which make complete sense to me. But there is also a fair amount of P/Jo and Dullena overlap (including most of the TVD thread contributers here) and some D/Jo-Stelena, which I find horrifying.

    I started reviewing my shipping history looking for patterns:

    Anne/Gilbert (Anne of Green Gables)
    Ages ago I had typed up a post for the TV nostalgia thread about my love for the Anne mini series made in the mid 80s - the board ate it but it was as gushy and sentimental as I can be. AoGG is my favourite book. My gran gave it to me because she had loved it so much when she was a girl and neither of her daughters had any interest in it when they were growing up and she took great pleasure in the fact that I loved it as much as she had. Obviously my love for the mini series is tied up with my memories of watching it with my gran and my childhood growing up on my grandparents farm (when my gran was in the grips of dementia, I watched it with her one afternoon and she started crying when the theme music started and said "I remember" - *sob*) but OMB I loooooove Gilbert Blythe. Anne is an absolute bitch to him when they are growing up and he covets her from afar. When she finally allows him to be her friend at the end of the first book/movie, I want to cheer. I wore out the first VHS I had of the film because I love the scene when he strokes her cheek at the end so much. Anne continues to be a horror in the subsequent films/books, telling Gilbert she only loves him as a friend when he proposes after years of dangling him on a string (because she knew he was in love with her). I love Anne but she's stupid. Everyone knew Gilbert was the guy for her. Anyway, Gilbert ticks several of the perfect TV boyfriend boxes - he has dark hair, he pines for YEARS (10 years from meeting till their first kiss, that is devotion) he makes huge sacrifices for her and he never thinks he's good enough for her. I am doing a rewatch as soon as I find the DVDs.

    Agent Cooper/Audrey (Twin Peaks)
    My first taste of being a bitter shipper. Not even a kiss. Still so angry with Kyle McLachlan. TV boyfriend checklist: dark hair, the good guy of the story. He doesn't pine though and she is the chaser.

    Doug/Carol (ER)
    Now, obviously, it's probably impossible for me to not ship Dr Doug Ross with whomever he wants. I spent the first season of ER waiting for them to get together and squeeing whenever they had a scene. The 2nd season reminds me a lot of The Creek S2 because the Doug/Carol interaction is dropped almost completely and she gets a love interest that I hatehatehated. Thankfully, again like the Creek, in Season 3 they start building towards a Doug/Carol reunion. Unusually, I enjoyed them as a couple equally as much as I enjoyed the build up. Dr Doug Ross ticks many of the perfect TV boyfriend boxes (he's Clooney d'uh) - dark haired, pined for years, changed for her. He is also a good guy, flawed, not perfect like Gilbert but Doug/Carol wasn't a dark relationship. By the time they got back together he was the right choice.

    Pacey/Joey (Dawson's Creek)
    The mother-ship. They made sense together. Pacey Witter is the perfect TV boyfriend and we all know it. The build-up to P/Jo was infinitely superior to the relationship we got in season 4 but even though I stopped loving Joey after season 3, she was a much better girlfriend to Pacey than she ever was to Dawson. I love that we won the shipping war, even if the ending was a little forced (Joey spent years running from her feelings for Pacey? - um, okay) They could have written the story a lot better, but KW did the best he could and the food fight scene really said everything about why they were the only choice for endgame. As I already said, Pacey is the standard by which all TV boyfriends past, present and future should be judged. And he is the pining G.O.A.T.

    Pam/Jim (The Office)
    Everyone shipped Jam, right?

    Jacob/Bella (Twilight - books only)
    I loved book Jacob. If I were Bella, I'd nevah have chosen Edward. Jacob pined, Jacob protected, Jacob put himself and his pack in danger time and time again for a girl he knew loved someone else. The conclusion of the Twi series annoys me nearly as much as the last season of Gossip Girl. I will NEVER watch the movies.

    Dan/Blair (Gossip Girl)
    OMB. The pain is still there. Honestly the very worst choice in the history of show running. A year and a half of showing how Dan is the right match for Blair, only to toss it aside for the wrongness of Chair. :flamingnono: Dan pined, Dan was a million times less annoying when he was with Blair, Dan put her happiness first which CHUCK NEVER DID. Dan was interested in her ambitions while Chuck was only interested in his own. And Blair loved going to the movies, Chuck! OMB I fucking hate him.


    Gale/Katniss (The Hunger Games - books and movies)
    Shut up, Is. He took care of her family. They understood each other. And I don't care what you say, he got the shaft in Mockingjay because Collins had written herself into a corner with regards to the love triangle, IMO. I don't know why I preferred Gale's pining to Peeta's. Maybe I am just shallow and book Gale's description appealed to me more than book Peeta's (we don't even have to discuss the movie casting) Another disappointment.

    Stefan/Elena - (The Vampire Diaries)
    Do I ship it? Or do I just hatehatehate the alternative? The first shippery feelings I felt for TVD were for Steroline but they should have exploited that bond earlier. Now I prefer them as friends. I enjoyed Stelena as a couple in Season 2 and I wanted them to get back together all through season 3. The dark haired, pining for something he thinks is out of reach guy in TVD doesn't appeal at all. Why? Because Delena make no sense to me. Even making Elena a vampire to explain her switching Salvatores didn't work for me.

    Barney/Robin - (HIMYM)
    I'm in the midst of a mini obsession with Barney Stinson. Robin is a bit of a Joey Potter for me. She annoys me most of the time but I still want Barney to have her. Barney doesn't tick that many of the perfect TV boyfriend boxes - he's blond for a start - but he does a good line in pining. The scene in the bar when he's waiting for Robin and she shows up with that therapist she dated? OMB. I also like that they pine for each other at different times. For sure I feel that she loved Barney in a way she never loved Ted. Again, they make sense to me.

    Is there a pattern? A lot depends on how attractive I find actors in question. I'm a canon shipper, I don't have crack ships. I do not enjoy "dark, wrong" pairings. It has to make sense for me. All my favourites are good matches on paper (maybe not Dale/Audrey), so I don't think I go for opposites attract. Stelena have a lot of the soulmate destiny jibber jabber that D/Jo did, and so do Barney /Robin to an extent, so maybe it was Beek's giant noggin and flaring nostrils that put me off. Maybe, at my core, I am a D/Joer. *sad* Do you pattern ship?
    Last edited by Linda; 03-09-2014, 03:18 PM.
    Bitter Shipper

  • #2
    Linda, what about Veronica/Logan?
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    • #3
      I never watched VMars. I never watched Buffy or Angel either. Vast gaps in my TV knowledge, I know.

      I shipped Seth/Summer on the OC, and anti-shipped Luke/Lorelai on Gilmore Girls.
      Bitter Shipper

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      • #4
        You can draw a straight line through most of my ships.

        Dark-haired boys with irrational levels of pining and loyalty (often for girls who don't even appreciate the levels of their devotion).

        I shipped Agent Cooper and Audrey because I thought they were the hottest humans on the planet when that show was on the air and I just wanted to see them mash their faces together! I never watched AoGG (but SOB at your story) or ER (I was always drunk when that was on).

        But:
        -Jim/Pam
        -P/Jo
        -Book Jacob/Bella (ALL DAY)
        -Dair>>>>>Chair TO INFINITY AND I WILL NEVER BE OVER IT.

        But also:
        -Michael Scofield's love of Sarah Tancredi on Prison Break? OMG.
        -Peter Parker's love of Mary Jane Watson Parker in the Spider-Man comics of the late 80s/early 90s? *DEAD*
        -Mulder's and Scully's insane devotion to each other (but his devotion is especially crazy early on--by season two he's already ready to burn down the world to save her).
        -Logan Echolls--his insane devotion to Veronica is balanced out nicely by his own crazy, a good twist on the perfect boyfriend!
        -Lloyd Dobler--Diane Court is everything to him.


        As for TVD: I didn't even think I was a Stelena shipper until he called her and didn't say anything and just had the sads in that sad parking lot? LOL. And then I was RELIEVED when she picked Stefan as a human. And I really think their relationship died with her. I like human Elena! Sorry, I'm a lame-o, and I don't care. I have zero interest in shipping Elena and a super dark murderous boyfriend that she has to "grow up" to love. Damon's not a good person. He's childish and tantrum-y and that's a huge turn-off for me (See: CHUCK BASS) even if he's great in bed and devoted in other ways (Logan Echolls is as dark as I go with fictional boyfriends).

        As for Hunger Games:
        I get loving Gale! I like him. I'm not anti-Gale, ever. But Peeta hits ALLLLLLL the hotspots for me and for Katniss. Insane devotion, lifelong longing and crushing with the bonus of Peeta being the chick in the relationship, which I love. He's smart and sweet and talented in all kinds of surprising ways. He brings light to Katniss's dark places. Gale and Katniss are just too alike. They are like siblings who would have a nice, quiet, sad life if there had never been a revolution. But when I re-read it's so clear that Gale doesn't understand her once she returns from the games. He can't on one level but he also doesn't really try on another. He has his own agenda to overthrow the government--totally acceptable and I support it. But Peeta? Peeta is Katniss's safe space in the games and that is destroyed when he's tortured and it's then you see that Katniss needs that desperately. She needs his support and loyalty and people smarts to balance her own personality traits. Also? Peeta remembers everything: The way she sang that song whens she was five. The way her parents loved each other in a way his never did. There is nothing for Peeta except Katniss. Gale? He's got the revolution. I can't even take how the movies have thrown this entire thing over to create a kick-ass action franchise. *sob*

        So, yeah, I have a pattern.

        ETA: Angel/Buffy >>> Spike/Buffy (HE TRIED TO RAPE HER YOU GUYS)
        I shipped Seth/Summer but the stakes felt low.
        Last edited by isadora; 03-09-2014, 04:08 PM.
        6 YEAR COMMITMENT TO THE PAIN OF SHIPPING DE. I DONT COMMIT TO MY OWN LIFE AS MUCH DO YOU UNDERSTAND

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        • #5
          Anne and Gilbert! that was my first ship! my BFF and I used to watch it over and over again, especially 'I hope he breaks your heart.. whoever he is' and then 'marble halls'! I think I always felt Anne/Gilbert was a more satisfying version of my first literary ship - Jo/Laurie from Little Women (I will never be over her marriage to that old German).

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          • #6
            Omg I am also bitter forever about Jo/Laurie!

            And yes, yes to the Gilbert quotes. Is, you would love Gilbert Blythe.

            I hate the idea that Elena wasn't ready for Damon before she "grew up" and I also dont think he challenges her. God I hate them as a couple. However, I did enjoy Dr Doug and Barney growing up to be ready for their relationships and Anne letting go of her ridiculous romantic ideals to see what she has right in front of her.
            Bitter Shipper

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            • #7


              LOL I'd never even considered fanvids!
              Bitter Shipper

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              • #8
                That video is my life! Especially 1:44.
                Gilbert is a total Pacey, I see now (as was Laurie..) And he did grow up: Anne totally broke his heart when she rejected his proposal ('I've loved you as long as I can remember'). But he stayed steadfast and pining. I had to youtube that clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo9IjDepaT4 (7:40 on). though I'd forgotten about 'kindred spirits', which now seems perilously close to 'soulm*tes'..

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                • #9
                  Anne found kindered spirits everywhere so I can ignore that aspect.
                  Bitter Shipper

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                  • #10
                    My type is pretty easy to identify. Pining is nice, but the key for me is being the snarkiest. If given two guys, both relatively decent piners, I generally go with whoever slings the best wit. Also! Dark humor is the best.

                    Probably why I have a soft spot for Spuffy, even though I ship Bangel more. To even think fond thoughts about Spuffy, though, kinda have to glide right over Seeing Red. He didn't have a soul, though. Souled Spike never would have done that . . . and Angelus, would have, and worse. We tend to hold Spike up to the standards of Angel, when he should really be held to standards of Angelus.

                    My OTPs:

                    Peter/Harriet From Dorothy Sayers' many novels
                    Peter is the wittiest mofo ever, and he pines fantastically. He proposes to Harriet about a hundred times during a seven year pining period (but always quite politely with no pressure).

                    Stefan/Katherine TVD
                    In this case, it's Katherine who is the snarky piner. I like the gender flip of it. Although, Stefan's emotions are very murky. We never really figure out his true feelings in regards to Katherine. Doesn't seem like he ever loved her the way she loved him, and I have to live with that.

                    *sob*

                    P/Jo. Duh.

                    Logan/Veronica
                    Yep. Another snarky motherfucker who pines hella good.

                    Obviously, I have other major OTPs, but I am blanking right now.
                    Last edited by ophy; 03-09-2014, 06:57 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Is there a pattern? A lot depends on how attractive I find actors in question. I'm a canon shipper, I don't have crack ships. I do not enjoy "dark, wrong" pairings. It has to make sense for me. All my favourites are good matches on paper (maybe not Dale/Audrey), so I don't think I go for opposites attract. Stelena have a lot of the soulmate destiny jibber jabber that D/Jo did, and so do Barney /Robin to an extent, so maybe it was Beek's giant noggin and flaring nostrils that put me off. Maybe, at my core, I am a D/Joer. *sad* Do you pattern ship?
                      I've always wondered about this! That is if there's a consistency in the kinds of couples that one person ships. I think I like couples who fight. It doesn't have to be the conventional "I hate you! I hate you too! *cue makeout*" dynamic but bickering to bantering to true love is always good or even just couples that can convincingly have a real fight because neither is a pushover or self-righteous dismissive jerk. I think this sort of falls in line with your need for the couple to make sense, Linda. I feel like couples who don't fight are being pushed by the writers/showrunners to an inauthentic degree. Like they can't have conflict because then we might not think they're made for each other. But the couples who can fight (because everyone fights) and are still perfect together are the ones who make sense to me. Also, flawed guys who grow up through the love of a good woman. I can't help it; I love that trope.

                      The ships that took over my life were P/J (duh), Sethummer (mostly for Adam/Rachel reasons), and RK (duh again and so by extension, E/B). (And Tim/Lyla very, very briefly.)

                      Ships that ruined shows for me were LoVe, Dair (stopped watching GG), Alex/Izzie (Grey's Anatomy, although I watch it again now but don't have a single ship), and Jackie/Hyde (stopped watching).

                      Ships I still have warm and fuzzy feelings for but no real investment are Doug/Carol, Rory/Jess and Rory/Logan (no apologies!), Luke/Lorelai (up to S5), Ben/Felicity, Andy/Nancy (Weeds), Peeta/Katniss, Barney/Robin, Ephram/Amy, JD/Elliott, and probably others I'm forgetting. One of my first ships was Billy (Peter Berg) and Diane (Jayne Brook) on Chicago Hope. They had the bickering + bad boy thing.

                      Current ships are Philip/Elizabeth (Americans), Mindy/Danny, Jake/Amy (B99), Julia/Joel (Parenthood) but I'm not to the fanfic point with any of them (that's how I know I'm really on a ship). I just prefer making out to not making out.

                      I'm also still bitter about Jo/Laurie. And Xander/Cordy. I ship Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike depending on the season. I have many feelings about the Seeing Red bullshit but in a certain context, B/S worked for me and James & Smidge had better chemistry than Smidge and a lot of others.

                      I anti-ship Jim/Pam (hate!) and Olivia/Fitz (double hate!) but otherwise I don't feel that shippery lately. It's like I can't afford to dilute any shipper energy aimed at my OTP because they need all the help they can get. /normal

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                      • #12
                        and Rory/Logan (no apologies!)
                        I'm unapologetically both a Rory/Logan shipper and Lorelai/Christopher. (SHUT UP EVERYONE)

                        But neither of those are really OTPs for me. That show wasn't about romantic ships.

                        But WORD about good fight banter. That is key. That might be why I would rather see Damon/Elena than Stefan/Elena on TVD.

                        Current ships that I ship mildly in the ' would like to see them make out with each other instead of with other people' way:

                        Stefan/Caroline
                        Mindy/Danny
                        Derek/Stiles
                        Nick/Jess
                        CeCe/Schmidt
                        Dyson/Bo (Lost Girl . . . and occasionally Bo/Tamsin, or Dyson/Bo/Tamsin . . which is a possibility on that show)
                        Duke/Audrey/Nathan (Haven . . . well, it's complicated . . . they are all three such great snarky piners)
                        Barney/Robin
                        Felicity/Oliver (Arrow)
                        Fitz/Simmons (S.H.I.E.L.D)
                        Leslie/Ben
                        Mary/Francis
                        Emily/Aidan (Revenge)


                        There is no current (fictional) ship taking over my life at the moment, other than the ones I'm making up in my own head. That's probably good, right? I need to save my focus for my own fictional romances.
                        Last edited by ophy; 03-09-2014, 08:17 PM.

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                        • #13
                          How can you anti ship Jim and Pam?! Even in the early seasons?

                          I love banter, but only if I like the characters. Pacey and Andie's banter was annoying and Damon's banter with Elena makes me want to tear my ears off.

                          I also like Nick/Jess and Danny/Mindy. On The Good Wife I like Alicia with Peter more than Will. Alicia/Will dont make sense to me. And I think she looks too old for him. I don't believe them as a couple. My main ship for TGW was Cary/Kalinda. I quite enjoy Fitz/Olivia but I hate myself for it. I always rooted for Big and Carrie even though he treated her terribly. I hated Aidan.

                          Edit: I liked Christopher/Lorelai. For the few seasons I watched oth I shipped Lucas with Brooke. I'm glad I was never that into that show because the Brucas shippers are Dair level bitter.
                          Last edited by Linda; 03-09-2014, 08:15 PM.
                          Bitter Shipper

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                          • #14
                            I'm glad I was never that into that show because the Brucas shippers are Dair level bitter.
                            Kinda sucks that CMM ended up being such an asshat. I'll bet they would have changed the endgame entirely if he hadn't been.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Linda View Post
                              I always rooted for Big and Carrie even though he treated her terribly. I hated Aidan.
                              Carrie was such a self-centered asshole that she deserved to end up with someone equally asshole-ish, i.e., Big. Aidan was so blah to me. I could never figure out why he liked Carrie. My only real SatC ship was Miranda/Steve. If I have any sort of shipping pattern, it's couples where the guy is unfailingly supportive of his smarter and/or more successful girlfriend, while not being threatened by her. That would definitely apply to PJo, and probably a bit to Ron/Hermione, too (he was there by the 7th book, at least). Bright/Hannah probably would have been like that, too, if they hadn't made him a cheating dick.

                              My other ships don't necessarily conform to any pattern. Brenda/Dylan was my first real (non-Daytime Soap) OTP and that was all about the DRAMA. Broody rich boy with no family loves naive, Midwestern good girl and her dad can't stand it and does everything he can to end it? Yes, please. I was just entering my teens when that was going down and I ate it up. The fact that Dylan was pathetically in love with her certainly helped. He CRIED over her. Constantly. The idea that this supposedly super cool bad boy would just completely lose his shit all the time over dorky looking ShanDoh really appealed to me.

                              Jackie/Hyde...ugh. I'm still so bitter. They had great chemistry, they made sense, so naturally, they broke them up for no damn reason and put her with Fez at the end.

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