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Veronica Mars: Sassy Teen Detective

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  • I think everybody should read Jellicoe Road and then have a long talk about it. Hee!

    And I gave no thought about Vmars as an "indie"; I don't even see the two topics as related. This was not an independent film. It was a reboot of a franchise by any means necessary that hopes to have multiple revenue paths going forward based solely on the fan base's love of the characters. And, lets be real, if this was some nerdy boy show? Nobody would have needed a kickstarter. Victor Mars, neo-noir detective in space (or some such shit) would have gotten a movie made by somebody with no problem. I mean, Serenity is proof positive of that.
    Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


    • Box office numbers:

      Domestic Total as of Mar. 16, 2014: $2,021,000 (Estimate)

      (#10 rank, 291 theaters, $6,945 average)
      I don't know what those numbers mean, but people on twitter are quite happy?


      • I'm gonna say those are astonishing numbers. Everybody who went to the theater could easily have stayed home and watched it. And the 90k real die-hards? Got a free download. So that box office number is only the die-hards (like me) who went to the theater (mine was almost full) and doesn't count the freebies OR the Amazon/iTunes revenue for this weekend. I would love to know what those numbers are. When I looked on Saturday morning, Veronica Mars was the second most popular movie download on iTunes after Catching Fire.
        Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


        • Yeah, I saw this tweet from a critic:

          Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 18m
          After all that free media coverage, the 'Veronica Mars' movie only debuts with $2.02 million in its first weekend.
          And I'm thinking 'only'? I don't think you understand this business experiment at all. Which is fine, it's not surprising that actual film critics are struggling with all of this. It just doesn't fit into their traditional boxes or metrics.

          I believe the only things WB paid for was to rent the theaters (it wasn't released the usual way, obvs), extra promo/marketing materials, fulfillment stuff, and that one extra scene they shot later (Keith and Veronica watching the cops shake down those teens). So it would be nice for all of that to be covered in the first weekend by traditional box office, so Rob can point at that when trying to argue for a sequel. Anything on top should be gravy for the studio.

          I know that they don't *want* to go the Kickstarter route, but I'm totally cool with kicking in another $100, if that's what it takes for a sequel. Pretty sure many fans feel the same way.

          Ryan Hansen interview about the web spin-off, which sounds like it's going to be a fun satire piece:

          I'm a sucker for people playing themselves, alŠ The Beek on Apt 23.

          More about follow-ups:

          Veronica Mars‘ next trip to the cinema — if there is one — would find the titular P.I. immersed in a vastly different kind of adventure.

          Although the Veronica Mars pic only just hit theaters, star Kristen Bell has already been talking about the mysterious box office number the movie needs to hit to trigger another film, and now we’ve got some scoop about what a possible sequel might look like.

          The current big screen continuation has a Godfather feel to it, with Miss. Mars being pulled back into her old life. But for the next chapter in the beloved character’s saga, “I would try to write Chinatown with Veronica Mars at the center of it,” creator Rob Thomas told TVLine at a PaleyFest event celebrating the series on Thursday.

          “With the first movie, because it was crowd-funded, it was a love letter to the fans,” he explains. “I put every character they loved back into the movie. There are a lot of inside jokes. With a second movie, I would build it from the case out. In the first movie, I feel like I did just the opposite. I put all the dessert, all the frosting on there, and then put a detective case in the middle. On the next one, I would want the detective case to be the driving force of the movie.”

          Whether the project would incorporate any storylines from the upcoming novels, which pick up where the movie left off, is still up in the air. “I really liked the plots of these early books,” says Thomas. “And they could be good movies. But I want to see where we are a year from now, what the response to the books has been, what the delay would be between the first movie and the second movie, if we’re so lucky to have that happen.”

          And it would, indeed, take some luck because a follow-up is “so not an automatic,” admits Thomas. The dollar figure that needs to be reached is “not the easiest goal in the world. But it’s a reachable goal.”

          In the meantime, Thomas will soon head to Vancouver to shoot his iZombie pilot for The CW. Then he’ll start production on the Veronica Mars web series for the network’s digital arm CW Seed. And good news: There will be some familiar Neptune faces accompanying star Ryan Hansen in the offshoot.

          “It’s me, banking off the success of Veronica Mars, trying to get a Dick Casablancas spin-off and trying to get help from my cast members,” reveals Hansen.
          So who might fans expect to see assisting the actor in his crazy endeavor? “If Ryan’s in it, I’m always in it,” says costar Jason Dohring.
          JDoh in the webseries, also playing himself? YES PLZ. They should shoot it with Jason wearing the dress whites, all the time. Like, he just refuses to take them off, ever.


          • I keep reading interviews with RT and actors to get a hint of how well we're doing. I'd like a case centric sequel Rob Thomas spoke about. Hopefully this will show WB that we're serious about Veronica Mars.

            The most interesting new release was of course the 291 screen release of Warner Bros.’ Veronica Mars movie. As you know, the film was a feature continuation of the beloved but poorly rated television show. The film version, coming seven years after the end of its third and final season, was funded mostly by hardcore fans using Kickstarter. The film actually debuted in 291 theaters and Video On Demand on the same day, unheard of for a major studio release. Warner had to rent out many of those theaters as the big chains generally don’t play movies that are available on VOD. I don’t have VOD numbers and may not for awhile, but the film’s theatrical release opened to $2 million, or just over a third of its $5.7 million budget.
            Given fan investments.. this is probably more about WB getting money back for renting the theaters, post production and whatnot. It was a definite surprise to get 900k on the first night. Of course there's amazon and itunes money as well. I don't even know how that works. My twitter feed also tells me it was released on Google Play and Sky Store.

            from box office mojo

            Opening Weekend: $2,021,000 (estimate as of March 16)
            (#10 rank, 291 theaters, $6,945 average)
            % of Total Gross: 100.0% .. hopefully

            I can't help but think angry supporters getting their money back from WB because of download issues hurts the idea of a sequel

            imdb voting statistics as of right now (because I am obsessing over this):

            most fans are 18-29 apparently. although who knows. I really should give up googling this and let the chips fall where they may.

            or the weekend, enough to break into the Top 10 as it averaged more per theater than both the new movies in wide release.

            (VM movie made) enough to break into the Top 10 as it averaged more per theater than both the new movies in wide release.
            good Rob Thomas interview (with hitfix's Drew McWeeny):
            Last edited by Iva; 03-16-2014, 02:15 PM.


            • Hopefully this will show WB that we're serious about Veronica Mars.
              My dream, of course, is to have done enough to attract Netflix's attention, so it won't matter if WB doesn't want to do another actual movie release. Netflix is where this belongs (in my heart).

              Here are some critics, just floundering:

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 2h
              After all that free media coverage, the 'Veronica Mars' movie only debuts with $2.02 million in its first weekend.

              Johanna Fuentes ‏@jfuentes 2h
              @RaminSetoodeh not including VOD and of course thousands of backer downloads

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 2h
              @jfuentes @RaminSetoodeh VOD yes, but backer downloads aren't $$$.

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 2h
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes We don't know how much WB spent to rent AMC screens (or on advertising), but I wonder if it will make money.

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 1h
              @RaminSetoodeh @jfuentes Do we know how many people donated $35 or more to get it for free? Does Kickstarter break that out? @davidfg

              Johanna Fuentes ‏@jfuentes 1h
              @KateAurthur @RaminSetoodeh per Rob's email to fans there were 91.5K+ backers...

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 1h
              @jfuentes @RaminSetoodeh The show averaged 2.5 million, basically, throughout its run. In theory, there are more potential audience members.

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 1h
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes Which is why your "it's not a movie" argument is correct.

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 1h
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes I don't understand the decision to only target the movie to people who watched the show.

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 1h
              @RaminSetoodeh @jfuentes Who else would want to see it, though? I couldn't even get WB pubs to answer the simplest questions about it.

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 44m
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes Kristen Bell fans? 'Sarah Marshall,' she's just coming off 'Frozen,' etc. I feel like not all those people got UPN.

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 35m
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes But don't you think the quality of the movie had something to do with the weird distribution?

              Ramin Setoodeh ‏@RaminSetoodeh 40m
              @KateAurthur @jfuentes And the coverage made it seem like 'VM' was a real phenomenon. They could have built off that.

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 37m
              @RaminSetoodeh @jfuentes I feel like the free publicity was all they had. WB barely distributed/marketed. (Not that they must.)

              Kate Aurthur ‏@KateAurthur 31m
              @RaminSetoodeh @jfuentes Maybe. But a lot of reviews have been positive? Which I think is surprising.
              The fact that Aurthur is 'surprised' that we got positive reviews just shows that she did not understand any of what is actually happening.

              Everyone needs to stop thinking of this as a regular movie. I think that's the trouble, right there.

              It's okay that it's not a 'movie', guys . . . and it's okay that nobody actually cares what the critics think . . . this is the one time when your opinions are neither necessary nor interesting. LOVE LETTER TO THE FANS. You ain't fans? GTFO.

              From Rob's interview with Hitflix that Iva posted:

              When we sat down to talk about "Veronica Mars" and its resurrection as a big-screen feature film, it was a easy conversation to have. When you admire someone's work as much as I admire his, it's pure fun to talk about process and storytelling and characters and, in particular, the opportunity that he's created for himself as a storyteller with Neptune, California.

              There's one moment in particular in the interview when he actually says that he doesn't feel like he successfully pulled off the film's version of Neptune, and he points out which moment was added late in the process. I was surprised by how frank he is, but it indicates to me that Thomas is incredibly honest with himself about his own work, and not precious about it.

              I hope he gets many more opportunities to play with the television form, because he's got a major skill set that hasn't been fully harnessed by anyone. I look forward to whatever it is he decides to do next.
              Rob talks about how 'dumb' their process was, because they were too aggressive given the time scale, and ended up having only one take of some scenes. There is no doubt that only doing one or two takes hurt the overall movie. I noticed several moments I though JDoh in particular would probably have loved another crack at, and there were others where the lighting could have been so much better. That's nitpicky, though.

              Also, that they had to do an additional day of filming after finishing the movie, because Neptune no longer felt like a 'noir' town. They had failed to show that originally. I totes agree . . . the extra stop-and-frisk scene added that darker element, and also that sense of injustice, so you knew *why* Neptune needs Veronica to return.

              Anyway, showing us a mature and thoughtful Logan did not work for everyone:

              Carina MacKenzie ‏@cadlymack 29m
              Here is the problem: I am not actually interested in a version of Logan that is good for Veronica. I want him to be a disaster mess hellion.

              Calvin ‏@aurosan 28m
              @cadlymack That is the version of Logan that is good for Veronica though. That's the problem, he is crazy and so is she.

              Carina MacKenzie ‏@cadlymack 27m
              @aurosan I like them DESTROYING each other. Movie Logan just... wasn't the Logan I wanted.
              I can see that argument, but I just don't agree. I like the fact that life happens, and people change in accordance. A 28 yr old Logan who was just as self destructive as 19 yr old Logan would have been weird to me. Too static for the character. And let's get real . . . it's been NINE YEARS. Angry self-loathing hellion disaster Logan would be dead or in jail at the end of nine years, if he hadn't found some kind of structure and purpose.
              Last edited by ophy; 03-16-2014, 03:31 PM.


              • He still runs up and punches people? Also, Logan had stopped being psychotic by the third season. He wasn't setting public pools on fire. He had dated two normal girls in a row and had nice (if not intense) relationships with them both. He was already learning to channel his crazy. He was a slightly less crazy version of himself at 28 (like everybody else who grows up).

                I really think this is a different animal than mainstream critics understand how to process. It was available across all platforms all at once and had a significant number of pre-buyers. So this is a different animal and harder to quantify by traditional means.

                And people who freaked about Flixster? Are silly IMO. Use Ultra Violet with Vudu. Problem solved. Sure, getting it via iTunes is easier for some--but probably only because it's the method they are already using and understand. Lots of people are not especially tech savvy! Even if they could figure out how to register for and use Kickstarter.
                Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                • I think its ridiculous that people want Logan to still be destructive. That is crazy. I can be ok with 19 year olds being destructive but at what point do you have to say this relationship is jus too bad to even root for. I love the mature but still quick tempered Logan.
                  One thing I am still not clear on did keith win or lose the elecetion? They never really said. I assume lost but annoyed it didn't explicity say. Or did they and I missed it?
                  And I am super annoyed at everyone who complained about Flixster esp people who have conspirarcy theories about them doing it on purpose to get more downloads. So dumb.
                  Yes Ophy I worked with KB aunt in Ga. She was from Ohio. This was about the time the show was cancelled.
                  Last edited by SW1237; 03-16-2014, 04:34 PM.


                  • They should shoot it with Jason wearing the dress whites, all the time. Like, he just refuses to take them off, ever.
                    Always, forever.

                    And LOL critics are stupid.


                    • I like this call back I saw on tumblr:

                      I didnít get it, at first. I mean, hot DAYM, he looked good in his uniform, but I couldnít quite get my head around Logan enlisting. It seemed entirely out of character.

                      Then today, I was rewatching S1, and we got to Lord Of The Bling, and Logan has this exchange with Duncan.

                      LOGAN: ďYou know Momís dad fought in the Korean War?Ē
                      Duncan shakes his head.
                      LOGAN: ďUh. Well he got this lighter in Seoul. He held onto it even when he was captured. He and his buddies escaped and he had it engraved.Ē

                      Logan grew up without decent role models. Heís afraid of turning into his abusive father, his self-absorbed sister or his passive, self-medicating mother (whilst we can all agree that he loved Lynn, he certainly doesnít want to emulate her).

                      Looking at his family, his maternal grandfather is the only person we ever hear about that Logan discusses with admiration. Whilst we may not know if Logan ever met his Grandfather, I can certainly imagine him and his story being something of an inspiration. Heís so terrified that abuse is in his DNA, that having him as a bright spot on his family tree could lead Logan to seek a similar path.
                      Head canon accepted!

                      Also, Logan had stopped being psychotic by the third season.
                      Yes . . . sort of? But nowhere near to the same extent as Movie Logan.

                      Here's the difference:

                      -- S3 Logan finds out about what Mercer did to Veronica, walks up to a cop car and busts out the headlights so he will be arrested and thrown into jail where he can beat Mercer to a bloody pulp in front of prison guards.

                      -- S3 Logan sees Piz and Veronica on a sex tape, and immediately beats Piz to a bloody pulp in front of the whole world.

                      -- S3 Logan realizes Russian Mafia son Gory was responsible for the sex tape, and beats Russian Mafia Gory to a bloody pulp in front of everyone in the cafeteria.

                      -- Movie Logan sees instagram pics of Carrie doing coke on Sean's insta, seeks him out and then calmly talks to him (in a threatening manner, but hey! Still progress.)

                      -- Movie Logan hears someone call him murderer at the 09er . . . and beats up nobody, just walks away.

                      Movie Logan did still get to throw some punches, but it was hardly death wish punches the way he did in S3. He wasn't trying to kill or be killed.

                      I definitely agree that S3 Logan was already on a better path than S1 or S2 Logan, for sure, but he still had lots of self destructive moments. The S3 finale alone!

                      Interview with JDoh:


                      And the character who has arguably changed the most since we last visited Neptune? Bad boy Logan Echolls (Jason Dohring), but the change wasn't just an emotional one.
                      "I lost a little weight for the role. I dropped about 20 pounds," Jason Dohring revealed to E! News on the red carpet at the highly anticipated film's Los Angeles premiere. "I did want to be in shape for it because there's somethingÖthat calls for being svelte, as it were. So just trying to live up to my name on the screen."

                      The "something" that the weight loss called for? Spoiler warning: Logan is now an officer in the Navy. (And yes, we get to see him in uniform. All hail Rob Thomas!)

                      "There's so many problems that my character faced in his life, both of his parents were gone, relationships didn't work out, so he was on a very big downward spiral," Dohring said of Logan when we catch up with him after nine years on the big screen. "So it's finding some discipline in his life and it starts him off in a good place, a better place, and hopefully a place where he can get together with Veronica."
                      There's a nice vid at that link where he gushes a little about KB, and says they babysat Lincoln on set for her, so she could get something to eat.

                      Horrible comment on that article:

                      If he lost 20 pounds before the movie Yesterday 2:07 pm-
                      I think Kristen Bell found it.
                      Ugh. Jerk.

                      There was also that critic that assumed she was pregnant while filming. Do your research, people.

                      I can't even imagine taking something like this on just 3 months after giving birth. I know she said she had to use a breast pump in between many of the takes, and it seemed like some of her outfits in the movie were planned with that in mind. I doubt that Kristen was all that shy about popping a boob out on set as needed, either.

                      One thing I am still not clear on did keith win or lose the elecetion?
                      I don't recall if they said explicitly, but I thought it was obvious that he lost.

                      In case anyone wondered this (I did):

                      anonymous said:
                      Does anyone know who the kickstarter role was?I mean there was a reward of $10000 wich included a line.

                      Steven Dengler was the 10k role. He was in the scene where they were watching James Franco trying on skinny jeans on hidden camera. Steven was on the video right before the James Franco video yelling ďLetís get weird!
                      Oh. Okay, now I get it. I was looking for the guy through the whole movie.


                      • Still trying to define metrics:

                        This weekend, the film opened in 291 theaters, grossing just over $2 million, according to early estimates, for a per theater average of $6,945.

                        By no one’s measuring stick would that result be considered a success. Thomas has said that he and Warner Bros. — which holds the rights to Veronica Mars and is distributing the film — have discussed a “magic revenue number” the film would have to hit before the studio would consider bankrolling a sequel. And while $2 million is also the amount of the Kickstarter campaign’s original goal, which it reached in less than a day, determining where to place the goal for the film’s success in the real world — a rubric that could demonstrate whether Veronica Mars truly does herald a revolution in independent film financing, or is simply a well-intentioned cinematic curiosity — is a tougher bullseye to define.

                        With an ultimate budget of $6 million (Warner Bros. paid for reshoots, as well as for the fulfillment costs for the Kickstarter backers), the nominal break-even point for the movie would usually be $12 million. (Movie theaters retain roughly half of box office revenue.) But the film is also currently available on VOD, and the viewership figures for that burgeoning market remain tightly held by studios and individual VOD outlets.

                        While a rep for Warner Bros. did indeed decline to respond to a request for the Veronica Mars VOD viewership numbers, the film does appear to be making money on demand: As of Sunday, Veronica Mars was ranked third on the iTunes charts, behind box office behemoths The Hunger Games: Catching Fire and Frozen (also starring Bell), and ahead of recent Oscar winners 12 Years a Slave and Dallas Buyers Club. The first season of the UPN television series Veronica Mars, meanwhile, is currently number one on the iTunes TV season chart, indicating that both old fans and perhaps some new ones are binging on the series — and sending more pure profit Warner Bros.’ way.

                        As for movie theater audiences, according to Box Office Mojo, roughly 242,000 tickets were sold for the film since Friday. It’s a decent start, considering that is more than double the number of Kickstarter backers who helped make the movie possible, most of whom received a digital download of the film as part of their contribution to the campaign. Enough of those backers experienced difficulty with their download, however, that the film’s customer service reps have had to pay backers back for purchasing the film outright via VOD.
                        There's no denying that the hullabaloo about the movie has brought new fans into the fold, and more people have gone back to watch the original series for the first time. That should be worth something as well.

                        For Veronica Mars to reach that $12 million break-even point at the box office, filmgoers would need to purchase another 1.2 million tickets. Considering the show at its peak was watched by by 3.6 million people, that is theoretically possible. But Warner Bros. would have to release the film in several hundred more theaters, and boost its marketing budget considerably to reach them, not to mention the non-fans who would possibly be curious to see a movie about a former teenage gumshoe. It may be difficult to precisely define when Veronica Mars becomes a success, but it definitely has a lot of work to do to get there.
                        Well, I'd be happy to see the movie again on the Big Screen . . . in fact, I'd see it twice, if only there was a theater near me. It's pretty good that they are doing twice the backer numbers at the box office considering many backers are like me, and can't see it in a theater at all.

                        This is what one of the WB guys has to say:

                        Warner Bros.’ executive vice president of theatrical distribution Jeff Goldstein was happy with the opening, telling EW: “Our result starting with our Thursday fan events was $260K. You add that together with our weekend for a total of $2 million from 291 theaters? That’s pretty significant.”

                        This might not change the model for filmmaking and distribution as we know it, but Warner Bros. does have a few takeaways. “We recognize going forward that there’s room in the marketplace for huge movies, medium movies, and boutique films for a very specific audience,” says Goldstein. The biggest obstacle with this particular model was convincing movie theater owners to take a gamble and show the film theatrically, knowing that it would also be available on VOD — and free for many backers, who are arguably the most passionate of the fan base. AMC came through, and Goldstein says it was “hugely successful” for the chain.

                        “In so many of their complexes, Veronica Mars was the No. 1 movie for the entire weekend, far exceeding the next closest movie,” says Goldstein. “It’s not the number of theaters, it’s the quality of the theaters and the number of seats you can make available so that the patrons in the area can go see the movie. That’s what happened this weekend — they flocked.” The per theater average was about $6,945.

                        As for sequel possibilities? “We haven’t had that conversation yet,” says Goldstein. “We wanted to get through this weekend and then sit down and figure out where we’re going.” That includes looking at VOD numbers, which may actually be released. Take note, Marshmallows — everyone may be staying mum on what magic number they needed to hit, but there could be an answer soon. Goldstein says: “In a week we’ll have a better sense.”

                        Funny how the WB guy seems to contradict the critics and box office 'experts' who keep trying to measure this the normal way.

                        (Not that I would expect him to say it was a huge disappointment, even if he thought it was, I guess.)

                        Things From Paleyfest:

                        On the longevity of Dick Casablancas:
                        Fans often wonder why Veronica tolerated Dick for so long despite all of the horrible things he'd done and said to her over the years, and Thomas admitted that Dick continued to be written into stories because everyone loved Ryan Hansen.
                        There is definitely a post to be made about HOW PROBLEMATIC DICK CASABLANCAS IS AS A CHARACTER, but in the final analysis, eh. As far as I am concerned, they have retconned how complicit Dick was in Veronica's rape because Ryan Hansen reasons. I'm okay with that? It's not ideal, but it is what it is. Better to assume that even that part of Beaver's account was a lie then to imagine that both Logan and Veronica are super okay with the role she was told Dick had played in all of that. Since Beaver was a fucked up murderer, etc., I can go along with assuming he *did* lie about Dick's role to better minimize his own.

                        On the possibility of seeing Duncan again:
                        Duncan (Teddy Dunn), who fled the country with his daughter Lily in the middle of Season 2, does not appear in the movie, but Thomas said that if they'd had the time and money he would've included a clip involving Duncan and Lily in the credits. He joked that it just didn't make sense to have Duncan in the film. "[He] couldn't just show up to the reunion and be like, 'Hey I kidnapped a baby and ran across the country. How have you been?'" Somewhere in America, Teddy Dunn is sooooo pissed right now.
                        Well, maybe not. Maybe he was just relieved, especially after he saw how well JDoh has aged.

                        On the series returning to TV or Netflix with all-new episodes:
                        When asked by a fan about the possibility of the series returning to TV in some format, Thomas said that he'd love that. He said he'd also love to be able to do an R-rated version of Veronica Mars, given the series' noir background and the fact that Veronica is an adult now. As for more movies, "we always think we could be a successful low-budget Bond franchise," Thomas joked.

                        Anyway, back to Logan (I say, even though my brain hasn't really left Logan since Friday), was just thinking about the walk up the stairs at the 09er club to tell Veronica he is going to skedaddle, and she's up there with Piz . . . at the time, during my first watch through, I assumed Logan knew about Veronica and Piz, and so his thought process was like, "Oh, so Piz came out . . okay" but on second re-watch, I knew that Logan did not know anything about Piz and Veronica, which means that during the actual fight, the realization must have dawned on him. He was fighting because of Veronica and Piz's sex tape, defending Piz's girlfriend's honor, and yet Logan thanks Piz for jumping in with the fight. It was actually Piz's fight to fight! But it would never occur to Logan that it wasn't his. It will always be Logan's right to protect Veronica and/or her honor, current boyfriend/placeholder notwithstanding.

                        The very first thing Logan says to Veronica when they see each other again is, "You didn't tell me you and Piz were a thing." It's been weighing on him. Not the fact that she has a bf, or that Piz is that bf, but that she didn't tell him. What does that mean? Logan must have spent time pondering this. Veronica didn't mention her current relationship because . . .

                        a) Logan's presence in her life is so fleeting and meaningless there was no point in mentioning anything real about her actual life
                        b) on some level, Veronica still resents Logan and didn't want to share anything of herself with him, because he's 'unworthy' of her confidences
                        c) she and Piz are having relationship trouble and she doesn't feel close enough to Logan to talk about it
                        d) she and Piz are serious and perhaps even getting married, and Logan has been so obvious about still loving her that she's reluctant to hurt his fragile feelings

                        No matter what, the options are humiliating in Logan's view.

                        Of course, none of those are true. Veronica didn't mention her relationship, which would be a totally normal thing to bring up (especially since Piz even told her to 'give Logan my best' because Piz certainly wanted her to mention their relationship to Logan), for much murkier reasons. When she's with Logan, Piz doesn't exist. That was pretty clear throughout the movie. When she is face to face with Logan, there is no room for Piz. She didn't bring up the deets of her 'real life' back in NYC, because that life dissolves away when he looks at her. This makes Veronica an asshole, but a very relatable one.

                        I sort of love that Veronica was an asshole to Piz, and an asshole to Jamie Lee Curtis, and I sort of love that she didn't make any decisions regarding them, she just let them dissolve away like they didn't exist any longer. Because they didn't! All that she could see was Logan in those effity dress whites.

                        Logan aside, it was a very Veronica thing to do, and shows that she is still the same messed up person who can't always see herself as clearly as she can see through other people. Love love love all of that.
                        Last edited by ophy; 03-16-2014, 08:00 PM.


                        • Alllll of that. Piz and lawyering bores the shit out of us too, V.


                          • Co-sign TIMES TWO.

                            I LOVE that Veronica is kind of an asshole. And it kind of made me LOL that Piz disappears when she's in Neptune. It made perfect sense to me. Hell, I forget my own husband when Logan Echolls is on screen.
                            Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                            • It's okay that it's not a 'movie', guys . . . and it's okay that nobody actually cares what the critics think . . . this is the one time when your opinions are neither necessary nor interesting. LOVE LETTER TO THE FANS. You ain't fans? GTFO.
                              I wholeheartedly, fundamentally, emphatically disagree with this. But I'm done raining on y'all's parade. VMars ~~~movie. Yay.


                              • Yeah, I can see how it might suck to have lots of actual film industry and film criticism knowledge in your head when the rest of us are jumping around like kangaroos on speed not wanting to know real stuff. It's a high, you know? We made something happen that wouldn't have happened without us, and there is a sense of ownership there which changes the dialogue tremendously. The high will subside eventually, and then we'll start to take things apart.

                                But it's early days for that! Give us a little while longer before we have to evaluate the other stuff and think non-squee thoughts. We've earned the squee.

                                <--- only has room for SQUEE right now