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Veronica Mars: Sassy Teen Detective

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  • The more I think about Rob Thomas's justifications and ideas for the future of the show, the more baffled and angry I am. Not only is he wrong about what made the show so enjoyable -- not just Logan but the ecosystem of Neptune and the smart girl at the center of it -- but he clearly kinda resents the fans and thinks we're dumb bitches who just want puppies and romance. It's insulting and SUPER SEXIST on a bunch of levels. First of all: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WANTING PUPPIES AND ROMANCE. Second of all, that wasn't all we wanted. We also wanted better mysteries, stronger season finales, a good story, and interesting characters that grow and change and try and fail.

    It kinda infuriates me that the most interesting stuff this season -- Veronica's prickly behavior -- was ultimately supposed to be seen as a strength and not a weakness. I can't believe they weren't leading up to her growth as a character -- and I can NOT believe they think that tragedy porn passes for character development. She was an asshole who searched Logan's bag when he got home from work trips, bugged her friend, treated Wallace and the things important to him like shit, etc. And, in the end, the world told her to get even tougher and meaner and to keep her distance. Her best friend was murdered as a teen and THEN SO WAS HER HUSBAND on their wedding day. I mean, that's nuts. That would drive a person crazy. But instead it drove her away to go off on her own and be snarky to strangers and solve one-off mysteries where she never gets too attached and doesn't call on her network of people to help (she couldn't have pulled off half the shit she did in high school without Wallace but now she's good alone, I guess).

    This is so outer limits, I am truly can't process what Rob was thinking other than "Kristen is rich and famous, so if I can just work with her in a one-off way that's all that matters...."?

    And none of that even touches on what a shitty send-off that was for a major character. He literally died running an errand after the mystery was solved and the murdered was in jail. Couldn't be more senseless and also pointless. He may as well have been hit by a car on his way across the street.

    I'm never gonna be over this. This is GG series finale territory to me.
    It’s just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


    • Comicsbeat YES. Count me disappointed AF that KBell also thought that torturing Veronica for the rest of her life was necessary. YA TONE DEAF.


      • I have been distracted by the fact that Taylor Swift just dropped a new song and I lurve it and have therefore been lured away from being hyperfixated on VMars S4 reviews to being hyperfixated on watching The Archer reaction vids instead.

        I totally did not notice Glory, Girl Writer wrote that smug NPR piece!

        This is so outer limits, I am truly can't process what Rob was thinking other than "Kristen is rich and famous, so if I can just work with her in a one-off way that's all that matters...."?

        I'm guessing that it was a pain in the ass trying to get everyone's schedules to line up for the movie and the revival, so Rob and KB probably figure that if they only have themselves to worry about, they can squeeze in filming here and there as needed to cobble together future seasons. Must feel good for the rest of the cast to know they are being left behind for administrative reasons.*

        *oh I know, it's for NOIR reasons only. They were sacrificed for the ART.

        In retrospect, there were also hints that foreshadowed this. When Rob was offered a chance to come up with a reboot idea to save the show after S3, he did basically the same thing . . . he sent Veronica out of Neptune and away from all of the former characters to be an FBI agent. He kept nothing of the original show except for Kristen, just like he wants to do now. And in iZombie, he has killed off every single one of Liv's boyfriends just as soon as she was happy with them, which should have told us (me) that Rob gets bored with/doesn't know how to write for happy couples. Oh, and he decapitated JDoh's character in a big shocking! twist! during a finale, so maybe that was foreshadowing, too. He just likes killing Jason!

        I'm never gonna be over this. This is GG series finale territory to me.

        I'm right there with you. And what sucks is that they will probably get an S5 pick-up because of all this conversation, and we'll have to just seethe in grrrr-ness over here when that one drops, and all the fanboys fanboy over it.

        This is probably the only way they don't get an S5:

        Been seeing a lot of this. Who knows if the people are just fronting, though.


        • I can’t watch S5. It might even be fun if you ignore the past but I can't reward this kind of behavior.
          It’s just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


          • For me, it ended with the movie. Thank God I never watched s4. For the rest, there's fanfic.


            • I had to wait for Mr. Issie to get home so we just finished watching last night. I've stayed off this thread and off Twitter for 4 whole days so I'm basically a Nobel Peace Prize winner, thanks. We finished last night and were so mad, we didn't talk to each other the rest of the night. Obvs, you could sense some shit was about to go down when Oswalt threatened her in the car, but when the bomb went off, I was so ragey, I didn't even cry. I still haven't cried over Logan, you guys, and he was my 2nd most favorite TV boyfriend of ALL TIME. I got in bed, got on this thread, and let ophy's breakdowns serve as my own cathartic healing. I don't really have anything more to add because y'all covered everything, but I'm done with the show for sure. It's not even a rage tantrum, I just don't have any interest in lone wolf Veronica. Man, what a fucking unnecessary beat down of a loyal and supportive fanbase.


              • Do you wanna get ragier? Here ya go:

                I guess The Atlantic and Daily Beast are also dumb shipper whores because they hated it, too.

                The Atlantic:

                Hulu’s revival of the detective drama ends with a curveball that cheapens the arc of one of the show’s most fascinating figures.

                The Veronica Mars Twist That Undoes a Strong Season

                Hulu’s revival of the detective drama ends with a curveball that cheapens the arc of one of the show’s most fascinating figures.

                . . .

                Perhaps it’s no surprise, then, that Logan gets killed off; now that he finally has his life together, his arc of self-improvement seems to have run its course. Thomas told TVLine that he got rid of Logan to take Veronica’s story out of the realm of teen drama, since romance “limits your options” in a hard-boiled detective show. But while ending Logan’s story may have made sense, his death is a plot twist that takes the lazy way out of examining him as an adult.

                After all, the series has sent characters off in much more thoughtful and satisfying ways before. When Veronica’s first flame, Duncan Kane (Teddy Dunn), left Neptune at the end of the second season, he got a hero’s goodbye with a scene revealing that he had avenged his sister Lilly’s murder. Before Meg (Alona Tal), Veronica’s friend and romantic rival, died in Season 2, she and Veronica repaired their fractured relationship in a last, heartfelt conversation. Even characters whose stories didn’t get such tidy closure received exits that had long-term effects: The series spent several episodes in the first season exploring how the disappearance of Lynn (Lisa Rinna), Logan’s mother, affected the Echolls family.

                By contrast, the events leading up to Logan’s death and the brief scenes that follow it are extremely rushed. In an almost farcical fake-out, Logan appears to have changed his mind about marrying Veronica when he fails to show up to their wedding after running into an ex; a few scenes later, it’s revealed that he was simply delayed. The scene seems to ignore the show’s characterization of Logan—for all his newfound discipline, he ends up being late to his own wedding—and the development comes off as a desperate way to drum up unnecessary tension.

                Even more egregiously, the series tries to justify Logan’s death by setting it up as a crucial catalyst for Veronica’s growth. In an epilogue set a year after the wedding and the bombing, Veronica goes to see Logan’s former therapist, Jane (Mary McDonnell), who tells her that the visit “shows me you are on your way.”

                “To what?” Veronica counters.

                “To well-being,” Jane responds.

                Sure, Jane. The unconvincing attempt to place a Band-Aid over the deep emotional wound Veronica is suffering gets even worse with the final reveal that Jane has been holding on to a voicemail in which Logan declares, “I want to marry Veronica because she’s the toughest human being I’ve ever met … She always picks herself back up.”

                The line comes off as more cloying than actually affecting, as if Logan himself knew that he was hours away from being blown up. And it doesn’t make up for the utterly mundane way in which the character is killed: He was in Veronica’s car when the bomb went off only because he was moving it to avoid a parking ticket. Logan, after years of witty banter and quotable quips, has nothing but a brief aside to an approaching parking officer as his final words.

                Logan, after an epic life, dies trying to accomplish a chore.

                A CHORE. It's just . . . it's just . . . . ASDKFGHDKL.

                The Daily Beast:

                Killing off Logan isn’t just a brutal moment for a specific subset of the show’s fanbase, whose adoration for the couple known as #LoVe has been transformed into rage (just check out Twitter for the proof), but a plot choice that reflects the show’s uncertainty about where its strengths lie.

                . . .

                Killing off Logan in some sense feels like clearing away baggage that was weighing down the series, but it still leaves the question of how Veronica Mars moves on without a defining aspect of the series—while it’s a bold choice, it leaves the viewer fundamentally questioning why they might want to continue watching the show, especially given that the core mystery of the season was lackluster. (Patton Oswalt has many talents, but depicting an evil genius, at least in this case, is not one of them.) If Veronica Mars isn’t a good mystery show, and it isn’t a romance, then what is it?

                Well, OBVIOUSLY it is a show about a . . . hmm . . . well . . .uh . . . nOiR, right?

                Actual footage of Rob explaining why he dun it:


                • Oh, how shocking that dude fans are here to tell us we were holding the show back. Solid.

                  I get the feeling that Diane Ruggiero-Wright thought the ending was nonsense (it was the only episode she didn't watch) but that she'd like to keep getting paid and working with Rob Thomas (who comes off as a dickbag in her stories even as she licks his ass, which is neat).

                  Obviously, I'm as upset as ophy about this. I can't stop thinking about it. The fact that they forgot she had a psych degree in order to make her bully Logan about therapy got me thinking about all the other things that gave me pause as I watching it -- things that I had some faith they'd resolve by the end of the show that they didn't. Just how shitty she was to every existing character while oddly glomming on to new characters was weird in retrospect. I thought she was defaulting to some bad behaviors that would be corrected by the end but they weren't. It was curious that in just 8 episodes she got blackout drunk twice and high with her club owner friend (why she couldn't have any of those emotional connections with Wallace is anybody's guess -- I guess you can't get drunk with a friend after you have a baby?). That seemed kind of out of character but I chalked it up to her growing up and getting over being a control freak. But I feel like a girl who was raped after being drugged and who seemed to value control over most other things wouldn't be keen to lose control and do drugs around virtual strangers.

                  The more I think about it, the weirder and more out of character everyone seems. Like Logan’s voicemail was meant to tell us that V was off on her own and she’d be fine. We're clearly meant to jump ahead and now Logan is just a sad memory that keeps her from committing to new boyfriends. But the voicemail was WEIRD AS FUCK because, really, what it was lacking was Logan’s passion for Veronica. He’s never been cool or detached where she’s concerned, and so saying that he wants to marry her because her respects her grit is kinda bananas. That's the kind of thing you say about someone who endured a lot as you looked on or recounted trauma to you that they endured before you met them. Because Logan has been through as much as she has, if not more (up to the point of being blown to bits), so it’s not like he doesn’t know something about survival in the face of trauma. Logan Echolls was the one getting beat at home and grew up in a violent, dysfunctional place. His mother killed himself a year after his girlfriend murdered. And that girlfriend was murdered by his dad and WAS ALSO FUCKING HIS DAD. I mean! IT IS A LOT.

                  So, if anything, it was the trauma and the loss and going through that fucked-up shit together that sealed them to one another, the two people who lost literally everything in the wake of Lilly Kane's murder, including three of their four parents. Duncan's losses were a distant third in comparison. He lost his sister and his parents were distant rich people. Sad! But it wasn't compounded.
                  It’s just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                  • Okay, I have to pull some quotes from that Diane interview you posted because WTF.

                    "When we first met Veronica, when we first fell in love with Veronica, where was she at? She was f***ing heartbroken. She was a wreck. Her life had been completely upended. She lost her best friend, her father was in hell and there was all this stuff happening with her mom," she said, referring to the first season that aired from 2004 to 2005. "When we fell in love with her at her low point, that gave us a place to watch her rise and it tells you a lot about a person when they're not in a good place. Do you really want to watch a bunch of seasons of happy, blissful domestic Veronica?"

                    . . . yes? Although you are vastly mistaking this as an either/or situation because y'all are severely limited in imagination as writers apparently?

                    "It's just not Veronica. She's not going to wind up in this happy life, unfortunately," Ruggiero-Wright continued. "That's how the trajectory of her life is and I think it felt true to what [creator Rob Thomas] wants to do, hopefully, in the future with her: break her down and build her back up again. It's also very noir and it's, in respect to Rob, good storytelling."

                    Y'all keep using those words but I don't think you know what any of them mean.

                    "A lot of people are afraid to do the scary things," she added. "The first season of Veronica Mars, we had this major mystery [with Lilly Kane's death], and we solved it in the first season. There's a term we use for that: 'balls out.' Rob is a very 'balls out' writer. He takes these risks and that's interesting, exciting to him. He also knows people are going to be unhappy, and I think he's worried that people are going to egg him. That they watched the show and come back the next day to wait outside for him and yell, 'Why Rob, why?'"

                    While Thomas revealed that the plan was always to have Logan die at the end of season four, Ruggiero-Wright shared that there was actually some considerable back and forth in the writers' room about the beloved character's fate. But "not from Rob, because Rob is very confident in his ideas," she made clear. "He has an idea, he has confidence in it and then he commits to it. He's not going to get talked out of something for bulls**t reasons... If it's just that fans don't like it, there's no way he's going to listen to that."

                    BULLSHIT REASON.

                    I feel so valued as a fan right now! I AM THE BULLSHIT.

                    "He's being true to the character and he's operating from a place of respect for the character. He's coming to the fullest place of integrity and not a place of 'I want to blow something up and be crazy.' You have to respect that, and it's his baby," Ruggiero-Wright noted, sharing that she toyed with several alternate endings that ended up not being up to par. "Did I pitch him a couple things? Yes. Were they as good? No way, they weren't. They were oat milk when you want half and half. But, is oat milk good? Yeah, I like it. But half and half, come on, that's what you want in your beverage."

                    Okay, now I really really want to know what DRW's ideas were that were so much WORSE than blowing Logan up because Veronica and the entire Neptune police force forgot how to do their fucking jobs all of a sudden. HE DIED WHILE DOING A CHORE. Feel the respect for the character so much respect wow.

                    "I didn't watch episode eight. I've read episode eight. I know what happens but in my mind, I'm watching Pony and Veronica and Logan making spaghetti in the kitchen," she said with a laugh. "And I'll watch it if we get another season. But I'm a dork like that. If I were you, I'd be thinking about it too and that's the problem. I'd be sitting here trying to get some work done and thinking, 'Why didn't... The ticket's $12! Just leave the car!’"

                    If there was anything Ruggiero-Wright fought for in season four, it was this crucial LoVe moment: Veronica and Logan's wedding, which took place at the Neptune courthouse with Keith and Wallace as witnesses.

                    "I wanted to see Veronica and Logan get married. I didn't want to just hear that they got married. I wanted to physically see them do this," Ruggiero-Wright said. "I wanted Veronica to be wearing some form of a dress. It doesn't have to be a puffy, circa 1988 wedding gown. But I wanted to see her have a wedding."

                    "That was the thing that I got real girly about. Like, 'Please, I want it for my own...' I'm mostly a fangirl, so usually the things that I fight for are out of the fangirl in me being like, 'Please, let me see this. Let me have this. Give us this.'"

                    Dude, your internalized misogyny is showing. You might want to look into that.

                    As for the potential future of the series, Ruggiero-Wright echoed Thomas' sentiments, saying she has hope that this "isn't the end end." "I think he definitely crafted the story so that it wouldn't be."

                    That whole interview made me think DWR has stockholm syndrome yikes.

                    Screenrant is not convinced about Rob's supposedly superior writing skills:

                    Veronica Mars Creator (Badly) Explains Why [SPOILER] Had To Die
                    . . .

                    There are surely viewers who think it's about time for a reversal of those roles, with the male character dying to further the female hero's story, and appreciate that about the Veronica Mars season 4 finale twist. But the argument against fridging is that it's sexist, lazy writing. In the case of Veronica Mars, it's simply lazy writing. Thomas' explanation then doubles down on the lack of imagination that presumably led to the decision to kill off Logan, stating, "It’s just hard to imagine a detective show with a 35-year-old woman with a boyfriend." Many viewers who appreciate well-developed, well-written female characters have taken issue with this statement, pointing out that a show with a female character like the one Thomas describes could be just as enjoyable as the Veronica Mars he envisions - more so even because it would portray a capable and strong female character in a healthy, loving relationship.

                    Refinery29 doesn't agree with Rob either:

                    If you know who we're talking about, then you're still processing. But did "Veronica Mars" really need to do what it did?

                    Real Talk: Did That Tragic Veronica Mars Twist Really Need To Happen?

                    . . .

                    Although they have explained how the series will have a new direction for potential future Veronica Mars seasons, I've got to be honest: Logan’s death still seems like an unnecessary plot device that will actually limit where the show can go, rather than opening it up.

                    . . .

                    As someone who lists Veronica Mars as one of their top five TV series of all time, I simply can't agree with Thomas’s mindset, and I can’t envision how another season of this show would capture the same magic that continues to set it apart from other mystery-driven shows.

                    To start, Thomas comparing Veronica Mars to other television series seems odd. Nothing about the concept of the show or Veronica and Logan’s relationship is conventional, so Veronica Marswouldn’t be expected to follow patterns set by other series. This isn’t a show about Veronica’s relationships with Logan and her other Neptune crew members, but rather, among many themes, how these relationships impact Veronica’s view of her suspects and her intense connections to her cases.

                    To remove a key relationship takes away not only Logan’s sarcastic but sweet dynamic with Veronica (which will be deeply missed), but it also eliminates his necessary role as someone who pushes Veronica to confront her trust issues and encourages her personal growth. Of course the obvious response to Thomas’ is: Why would it be less interesting to show a happier version of Veronica who also has to work on her marriage when she isn’t solving cases? Giving Veronica a more stable relationship shouldn’t make her less interesting because she would still be the fast-talking, quick-witted PI fans love. And to suggest as much is, honestly, kind of insulting.

                    Do you think Rob is reading ANY of this yet? He probably thought dumb shipper girls would hate it, but all of the critics would laud him as a Brave Writing Hero, but . . .

                    I'm not sure Veronica Mars is as great a show without these supporting members. Veronica’s interactions with her father, friends, and frenemies provide a breather for her and the audience in between multiple suspects that sometimes become red herrings and, worse, deaths. One of the reasons season 1 hooked audiences and is debatably the strongest season of the series is because of Veronica’s personal connection to the case and how emotionally invested she was in solving the crime. Without these relationships and characters fans have loved since 2004, it is possible the show, if it continues, won't look any different from other adult mysteries (of which there are so, so many).

                    So will Thomas’s bet pay off? The general social media consensus so far unsurprisingly confirms that Marshmallows do not approve of Logan’s death. But, this fanbase is extremely devoted, and the reason Veronica Mars has returned twice since its “final” season in 2007. So, time will tell if they want to stay for a strictly noir mystery series with none of the usual suspects. The thought of not seeing Logan (and potentially Keith, Wallace, and Weevil!) alongside Veronica in the future might just be too much to bear.

                    So! Happy to hear Jason is already booking non-Rob Thomas work.

                    Veronica Mars star Jason Dohring is set as one of the leads in the ensemble indie film, You Are Here, along with Lea Thompson (The Year of Spectacular Men), William Baldwin (Northern Rescue), Peter…

                    ‘Veronica Mars’ Jason Dohring To Star In Indie Pic ‘You Are Here’

                    . . .

                    Veronica Mars star Jason Dohring is set as one of the leads in the ensemble indie film, You Are Here, along with Lea Thompson (The Year of Spectacular Men), William Baldwin (Northern Rescue), Peter Vack (Someone Great), Anna Popplewell (The Chronicles of Narnia films), Jacqueline Byers (Roadies), and Cathryn Dylan (Ray Donovan).
                    Adam Neutzsky-Wulff is the director of this film, which is about a dying young man who clashes with his dysfunctional family when his attempts to bring them closer together over one weekend – reveal how truly estranged they are from one another.

                    That should dull the sting a bit at the Maison de Neopets.

                    Real talk, as of yesterday he's still out there doing press for VMars S4 and being a trooper and fans who have interacted with him say he told them he's really been feeling all the love and support.


                    • Were y'all looking for an article defending the ending from a dude? Here ya go:


                      “Veronica Mars” Explosive Finale Divides Fans (It's for the Best)

                      . . .

                      Although the quick one-two of marriage and death might have had a rushed execution, you can't help but balk at the overreaction from fans. Longtime fans have given up on the show, turning their backs on creator Rob Thomas for good. Some have even called him sexist and the writing lazy. For me, a strong reaction of any kind is a good sign; indifference is the enemy of fiction. I'd also argue that one character should not make or break a show.

                      . . .

                      The DNA of the show needs to expand to move forward—and Veronica needed to be separated from Logan to do that. A season of couple's therapy isn't compelling television, nor is Logan's perpetual on-call status for the military. Veronica is now a woman in her 30s, and without Logan she can dig elbow-deep into her next case as a workaholic with severe trust issues, a passion for justice, and an extensive taser collection. Without Logan, her fire will burn brighter than ever.

                      It's uncertain if Veronica Mars will fight, scratch, and claw its way to a fifth season. If it's anything like its namesake heroine, it will. But the polarized reaction to Logan's death draws a definite line in the sand. There are those with fantasies of LoVe who refuse to let go of the past, and there are realists who can accept a necessary evil if it means more of the show they love. Veronica is most compelling when she's fighting from the bottom. Like so many classic noir heroes before her, Veronica is better as a closed-off, emotionally-stunted pessimist, with a soft marshmallow heart deep inside. She's the underdog we root for because she never gives up. But, as in all great fiction, the protagonist can't have everything she wants, and as viewers, neither can we.

                      More boys boysplaining nOiR to us silly romance girls:


                      Poor Percy.


                      'Veronica Mars' season 4: Percy Daggs III aka Wallace says "I didn’t do it" regarding that shocking death, hopes Marshmallows stick with Hulu show

                      . . .

                      Percy Daggs III, who plays Veronica’s (Kristen Bell) BFF Wallace on the show, tells MEA WorldWide (MEAWW) that he hears and understands the reasoning showrunner Rob Thomas has for why that plotline was necessary. “Who doesn’t want to see her avenge her husband’s death, and deal with her grief, and lean on the people around her, and solve more mystery and find love again?” asks Daggs.

                      um . . . does Percy not even know about Rob's Grand Grim Noir plan for the next season? Literally none of what Percy just said is part of that plan AT ALL.

                      Logan’s death was hard on Daggs too, especially because Dohring is a friend of the actor. “I didn’t find out through the story, just passing each other on the lot, he pulled me to the side and said, ‘Hey Perce...’ and I can see the emotion in his eyes. He had taken a few days to process it himself. Right before I shoot a scene he decides to tell me and I was like, ‘Wait a minute, man. I gotta go work,’” he jokes, before voicing his devastation over the season 4 finale.

                      “So many quick things [are] running through your mind. I don’t even know if we are ever going to do this again if we don’t do this again… ‘How do you feel? How am I supposed to feel?’ It was just a really difficult time and it still is. I understand what the fans are going through. It still is, even sometimes when it crosses my mind, that Logan is no longer there,” he states.

                      He also reinstates his love for the fans of the show: “Marshmallows, I love you. I know how you feel. I hope you don’t get hard, Marshmallows, and you stay with us, and you continue to love the franchise and what it is. There is still so much more to do. There is still so much more for ‘Veronica Mars’ and the Neptune universe. I hope you continue to love what we do. I hope you love the season 4 and I hope you understand and we will get through it,” he says, adding, how if there is a season 5, he hopes it would mean just as much to the fans as it has meant so far.

                      Does . . . does he think he still has a job in S5 other than MAYBE a quick skype call when Veronica needs something? Does he think Neptune is even going to be an actual location in S5?? I mean . . .

                      Although, maybe it's safer for everyone if Rob DOES move the show out of Neptune.

                      Also, the fact that Rob peaced out on vacation and left Percy and Jason and some of the others to defend this nonsense when it was actually 100 percent his decision is A CHOICE.

                      Worlds collide!

                      Given that repuations was greatly influenced by GOT, who knows! Anything is possible.


                      • Oh, this show is for dudes who hate relationships and love hard-boiled (deeply mediocre) mysteries now?
                        It’s just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                        • Oh, hey! a playlist of all of the Logan and Veronica scenes from S4 on youtube so you can watch them without adding to Hulu's viewing numbers:

                          in case you want to watch the logan/veronica scenes from season four outside of the hulu platform. (altho it looks like they might still get money from these, but it’s better than nothing.) i think i...

                          Thought this would definitely interest those of you who can't watch/decided not to watch the full season. They are labeled clearly so you can easily avoid the NOIR! ending if you want to. There are some ridiculously cute moments (and obvs some frustrating ones).

                          Bonus! Logan's fight scene:



                          • I watched the first half Of the Kickstarter movie last night and it was delightful? Except V’s weird relationship with Piz, which still struck me as bizarre. I figured I’d rewatch that and end my VMars run on an upswing.
                            It’s just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                            • Rob finally emerges from vaca and speaks!

                              Has Veronica Mars Boss Reconsidered Season 4 Ending? 'Not Even a Little Bit'

                              . . .

                              TVLINE | How much have you been consuming the fan reaction? Have you been looking online, taking it in?

                              I have stayed completely off of Twitter. What I am reading are my Google alert headlines, and that gives me a pretty fair indication what the reaction is.

                              TVLINE | Fans have been very vocal about the ending, and some of them have been quite unhappy. Has any of that made you reconsider the ending?

                              No. Not even a little bit. I know what the show needs to be moving forward. There are not many shows about kickass detectives and their boyfriend at home. It was tough getting Logan wrapped into the story this season. Season 1 of Veronica Mars, the series regulars were all characters who I knew were part of that season’s mystery… It becomes very Murder, She Wrote if you have to start keeping the same six people wrapped up in each mystery. There’s a reason shows end when the couple gets together. I’m not going to start doing The Thin Man. It’s not going to be Veronica and Logan solving mysteries, so what is Logan doing in the show?

                              TVLINE | Has the response kind of hurt, to see people getting so angry about it?

                              Nothing has happened that I didn’t imagine was going to happen.

                              TVLINE | Were there any scenes that were deleted from the finale, particularly with Dick? We didn’t see him respond to his dad being killed…

                              Ryan [Hansen] was off shooting a movie. I would have loved to have had a fourth episode with Max Greenfield. But CBS allowed us to have him for three. Ryan, our original plan was to have him for five, but he booked a movie, so we only got him for three.

                              TVLINE | You’ve talked about how if there’s a Season 5, it’s going to be this almost new reinvention of the series. Will we see anybody from Veronica’s world still, like Keith or Wallace?

                              Yes, we will. It’s not a total reinvention. I feel like these eight episodes were a step in the direction of what it’s going to be. It is going to be pulling in a new cast of characters for each mystery. These mysteries are going to feel a lot more standalone. Mystery is going to be the focus of the show.

                              TVLINE | Will Neptune even be part of it?

                              It will definitely be a part of it. Whether the whole mystery will take place in Neptune, I’m not sure. There will be a taste of Neptune in whatever happens next.

                              Well, okay then.


                              • I've got more! It's endless cycles of rage for me.


                                'Veronica Mars' Creator Says He's 'Happy' With 'Raw' Fan Response to Shocking Season 4 Ending

                                . . .

                                ET: Have you kept tabs on fan response to season four?

                                Rob Thomas: I've stayed off of Twitter, so if people are trying to yell at me on Twitter, I'm not seeing it. I do check out my Google alert headlines in the morning, and that gives me a pretty reasonable synopsis on what the reaction has been. [Executive producer] Diane Ruggiero-Wright, who writes most of our episodes, she went on Twitter last night to live-tweet her final iZombieepisode, and she called me and said, "Rob, do not go in there. You do not want to wade in there." But the raw, general response to the episodes has been great. I knew going in it would upset a segment of the fans. Hopefully, it upset all the fans because Logan's death should mean something. But in terms of like, We will never forgive you, I think it's a much small section.

                                One of the criticisms of the season is how Logan's death conveys a message that successful women of Veronica's stature can't have it all.

                                RT: That was not my intention. I've been real upfront about my intention. It's that the hero of your television show, Veronica Mars, needs to be single if the show is going to keep surviving. If they had told me, "You never get to make another episode of Veronica Mars," Logan would have survived the end of the show. I'm certainly not trying to make a statement that women can't have it all.

                                There is also an online petition floating around asking for Logan's death to be undone. What is your response to that?

                                RT: I have not seen that. It doesn't surprise me. I don't think it's going to happen.

                                You've said that you see the show continuing on as an Agatha Christie-style mystery. Because of how fans have responded to season four, are you rethinking the approach to season five after fan response?

                                RT: The answer is no, I'm not rethinking. I'm sort of intrigued by, like, I feel like the response has been great. I'm happy with the reviews and I'm happy with the fan response. I'm even happy that Logan's death inspired as much [conversation]. So no, I'm not rethinking.

                                Yeah, I thought this would happen. He's isolated himself in the 'reviews written by fellow white dudes' chamber and isn't actually hearing the real response at all. He's basically just 'fake news'ing away the actual fan response from the actual fans. Oh sorry, from the fans he was intentionally trying to dislodge so he could get 'better' and 'higher quality' and 'dudebro-ier' fans. He doesn't want to know or care what the rest of us think.

                                It's possible that the Rotten Tomatoes fan score will affect him (currently sitting at 90% Fresh, but with only a 37% audience rating) but honestly? He seems so determined to ignore anything not fitting in with How Brave He Has Been that he probably will hand wave that away too.

                                And if you are wondering where the "wait, did Rob just say Veronica is a Republican?" on twitter comes from, it's this interview with CNN:


                                Some folks on Twitter have argued that Logan would vote Republican. Do you have any thoughts on that?

                                RT: "I'm going to go as far as saying he would not in this current political climate. [But] I've always thought that Veronica has very Charles Bronson sense of justice and I don't think Charles Bronson voted for many Democrats."

                                He kinda needs to really shut up now.