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Veronica Mars: Sassy Teen Detective

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  • Awww- look at fox with all the geniusness! You really are awesome. Great essay . . .you had me convinced at "Lianne".

    So this ep? I'm still all tingly. And yet . . . dunno, something was off and wrong and really wrong.

    random observations-

    -Teddy Dunn brings the hot with the scruff and the supersexay! sister fucking. Nice going, dude. Seriously one of his best efforts.

    -Celeste offered Duncan bottled water as soon as he got into the car! That's *two* meta references in one! car meta and water meta

    -maybe it's because I watched the scene over at too many times (is 15 too many?), but the flow seemed wonky to me. It was edited different in the actual ep, so it was kind of surreal. Seeing Logan all casual with Dick about the surfboard, undercut the scenes later with Weevil and V, and made them less intense.

    -V interrogating everyone, and the whole reveal itself, was lighter in feel than I expected. Oh, and Veronica? normally finding out that your first sexual experience was INCEST and UNDER THE INFLUENCE doesn't make with the libido making . . so what was up with the hot and steamy L/V stuff soon after? That's some recovery mechanism she's got.

    -Poor, poor Meg. There aren't enough cartoon birds in the world.

    -I don't even know what to make of the L/V scene where she tells him it was Duncan. I assume it was in her apt? Didn't feel right that she would apologize to him (after all, he did do an illegal BAD thing with the drug bringing), and his reaction was suspiciously schmoopy. His defense of her at the party was in character, but seriously? After a girl spends a few days dweeling on and investigating how she ended up so wasted that she had sex and doesn't remember it, do you really want to go offerring her a drink during a make-out session? (refer back to the water meta link, which has a lot to say about Logan as a drink bearer). It just seems like an asinine move.

    -Okay, if it wasn't for the incest angle, I would have thought the Duncan reveal to be a cop-out. But I'm okay with it because Dunn did a good job with making it still seem icky and traumatic . . and I'm okay with the fact that the O9ers didn't collectively turn out to be as evil as I expected. Except for Dick.

    -secret!wrong! camera . . . so Veronica apparently blames Logan for the camera? I can't see how it wouldn't be Aaron's/Lynn's responsibility. Surely Logan didn't hire his own contractor at age 15 or 16 or whatever (I'm speccing here that the camera will lead to a Lilly reveal, so it must have been installed awhile back for that to be true). I must say, I wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that it was all about Logan and secret! sextapes . . .probably would assume that his parents were very creepily keeping that room under surveillance. Ew. Could be of course, that Lynn used secret cameras to collect evidence against Aaron to use later.

    -Killer is back! I mean, Lianne is back! Fox's theory is looking real probable to me so far. If it wasn't Lianne, they didn;'t need to bring her back for the finale . . .they could have just had her show up clean and soberish next season.

    - I did appreciate Logan's b-day "she's my gf" speech. Again, it makes their crash landing that much more angsty. However, I'm also starting to think Logan may be more mastermindy then we have given him credit for. Dunno what the goal is, but something is definitely up. And there has to be a reason why Weevil thinks Logan laid a BAD hand on Lilly (something Weevil found in the spy pen, maybe?), and there has to be a reason why Logan's alibi for Lilly's murder is so "airtight". Can't be that simple.

    -Awww- Wallace! Sooooo glad that was worked out. BFF!!!!!


    • SHIT! I had the world's longest reply and my computer crashed.

      At any rate, ITA with most of the above, especially the idea that the tone was VERY weird in the second half.

      Clearly, Logan is the lead suspect right now but also MORE clear to me is that Lianne SO DID IT!
      Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


      • Yeah, the episode did feel a little off. The jump cut from Keith and Cheyenne in the hotel to L/V was choppy and weird and I figured they just needed to rush through everything because there was so much to include.

        When V tells Logan in the beginning that she would ruin whoever drugged her, I figured it would foreshadow the reveal of him drugging her. So when when he told her that he slipped the stuff in Duncan's drink, I thought we'd find out that Veronica had already learned that information and was waiting for that moment to really fuck with him as part of her revenge. But then she didn't get mad at all and kept up with the smackity! That was so weird! And if Logan knew she was going to start digging around for information about that night, why wasn't he more forthcoming about his role in the matter? Something about their interactions/motives bothered me, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is specifically.

        And ophy, I thought it was weird that she automatically ran out of there when she found the surveillance equipment, too. Maybe she immediately wondered if the tapes might have Lilly revelations in them and that's why she ran out of there, but she must have suspected Logan of something or else why wouldn't she just make him take her home instead of calling Weevil?

        How is it possible that after all the info they gave us tonight, I have even more questions that ever? HOW!?

        Oh, quick rundown of things I loved:

        the V/Duncan scene was AWESOME. I can't quite believe that they went there, but still... AWESOME

        Logan and Weevil's almost fight at the beginning

        Logan and Veronica having their big coming out partay in front of everyone at his house

        And as wrong as the smackity was at the end in light of everything that happened, Lord help me, it was still haaaaawwwt

        Seriously, y'all I'm gonna have to be medicated before next week's show. And possibly again after.


        • Too much happened tonight! Thank gawd I had moral support! I've rewatched the key scenes multiple times now. Heh.

          Ditto on most of the observations above. My big thing (because I'm all about Logan) was why wasn't here more pissed off about finding out about the (suspected) rape? Why wasn't he also all up in everyone's bidness? He beat up the bully, I mean the narc, for cryiní out loud. Wouldn't he want to track down the rapist and beat the CRAP out of him? Or maybe he already knew that it was "consensual" sex with Duncan. May be Duncan said something to him? Something didn't add up with Logan's lack of real reaction to the rape reveal.

          So did V tell Wallace everything, including the incest thing? That I wasnít clear on. Iím guessing V kept that bit of detail from Logan. Otherwise, I would hope he would be (a) squicked out and (b) beat the CRAP out of his BF for committing incest with his GF!!!

          Thatís just so fucked up, I donít even know where to start. My gut feeling is that itís going to turn out that Keith is really Vís father, but how do you deal with a guy who had sex with you even though he thought you were his sister? And the reason why he couldnít ďhelpĒ himself was because your BF gave him drugs. Iím down with the L-V smackity, but if I were to find out that my first time that I donít even remember is with my BROTHER, I donít think I would be in the mood for a very very long time.

          I firmly believe that Logan and Duncan canít be the killer and Duncan is not really her brother, since they have got to play up this bizarre love triangle in season 2. Thereís just too much there to throw away otherwise. Love triangle baby. Thatís what we tune in for!
          It's all about me and my precious.


          • I got the feeling that Logan knew more than he let on. I think Duncan told him about it *except for the sibling stuff*! That the kind of shit you only share with your therapist!

            I'm also having issues with Veronica being all: You didn't know giving drugs to your BFF would lead to such madness! Let's make out!

            I also loved that seconds after Veronica told Logan she trusts him, she bolts out the backdoor without without even asking him about the cameras. Like those maybe didn't belong to someone else in the house? Maybe? Weird.

            Logan's schmooptasticness weirded me out. I just need him to dial it back a notch.

            And the preview scene is up!

            Spoiler for the preview scene: They are pointing the gun at Logan's head, I tell ya! And that just proves to me that he didn't do it! <---delusional
            Last edited by isadora; 05-04-2005, 02:03 AM.
            Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


            • SPOILER FOR UPN CLIP: Okay, so I have huuuuge problems with "I was in Me-hi-co with Dick and the Beav" translating to "out of the country, two witnesses = airtight". WTF??? What kind of PI or sheriff would accept that lameness as an alibi? Being across the border when you live outside of San Diego makes you about as inaccessible as having gone to the mall. And sorry, but no way would Veronica or her dad have accepted Dick and the Beav as credible witnesses. I did find it interesting how Dick stays true to Logan's story even *after* Logan had told him to evaporate the night before. Told you Logan is the alpha male of that wolf pack, and not Duncan! But the fact that the polic and Veronica all bought into the whole lameassitude of his supposedly airtight alibi is bugging the shit out of me.


              • I don't know what to think re: Logan's motives in this whole thing. He didn't start acting schmoopy towards Veronica until AFTER he found out that she was still investigating the murder, right? I mean, I know that they were both softening towards each other due to his mother's death etc, but the romantic stuff didn't start until after he found that out. So is it possible that he's doing all of this to divert suspicion from himself?

                I absolutely adored the Wallace/Veronica scene and I will be enraged if something happens with their friendship.

                And ITA with ophy about the copout aspect of Duncan being the rapist being saved by the possible incest. This show! Also, did he admit that he still loves her? And is that why he was so destroyed by the fact that she and Logan are together?

                I am weirded out by the video cameras, but someone else pointed out that there's a very good chance that he had no idea about them, as that was the same room that the poker game was in, so if he wanted to see who had taken the money, he could've watched the tapes.

                Spoiler for preview clip Man, no one is safe in these last episodes. Now I'm suspicious of Duncan, Celeste, Jake, Weevil AND Logan. But I'm with you Is, that because they are trying to incriminate him, means that he didn't do it. And I KNEW that the Beaver would have something to do with it.


                • Duncan totally said that he still loves her. He put it in the present tense - I think it was something like "I tried to cut you out of my life, but I love you and it won't go away." Something like that, anyway. So yeah, no wonder with the smashy, smashy after Logan called her his girlfriend. Which was kinda gay, btw, and not exactly necessary - Logan was laying the schmoop on with a trowel last night. Which is suspicious, but it's almost like it was *meant* to be suspicious, so I'm guessing the schmoop and the timing of their modern romance is a total red herring. Strictly from a story perspective, there can only be so many layers here . . .
                  1) Logan is the killer and they are playing this straight, and this is just the way the mystery gets revealed
                  2) Logan isn't the killer, and the suspicious schmoop and the camera and whatnot is just your basic noir misdirection set up for extra L/V angst
                  3) Logan is the killer and they want us to believe that the answer is number 2, which is diabolical "mis"direction but which might still fit the overall noir aesthetic

                  Since we all know without actually knowing (hail Fox!) that Lianne is the killer, I think the answer actually *is* number 2, but it's just going to be all gray and complicated. Well, duh to that last point.

                  isadora! come and post your "last day of lilly" spec stuff!


                  • I've already ruled out Logan and Duncan because they seem to want me to think that it's one of them. And there's no way that they'll destroy L/V that permanently. When V told him that she knew his alibi was airtight, I figured she'd done her own research instead of relying on police reports, but maybe not. And Breezy, I remember Duncan saying that he tried to stop loving Veronica, but he couldn't. I'm pretty sure he was speaking in the present tense.

                    His reaction to them at the party was insane and I felt so bad for poor Meg. She had no idea what she was getting herself into. When Veronica ran away from Duncan with Mama Kane looking on, was I the only one that noticed that she seemed a little smirky about Veronica finding out that Ducan was her brother? Maybe I imagined that. But she's so evil. You just know that she doesn't have any proof that V and Duncan are siblings, but she told him anyway to break them up.


                    • I think the way Veronica told Logan about her and Duncan ("we were both wasted and feelings and nature..") means that she (a) believes Duncan's version and (b) compartmentalized it. I don't know. It was weird to me that she was all "let's go to the make out room" with Logan to the point where she was very initiating, but maybe there's something else there.

                      But I do agree that knowing Logan drugged Duncan should have definitely stopped her cold if the other stuff didn't.

                      Weevil All of the Weevil stuff was awesome.

                      And, man, that video stuff was freaky. If Veronica found it so easily, I'm sure Logan knew it was there. And does Veronica really trust anybody? I don't think so.


                      • The more I think about it, the more the Logan stuff at the end seems like a set-up. And I think Veronica was setting Logan up.

                        I think she has feelings for him but she doesn't trust him so she's still trying to piece everything together.

                        I think the L/V angst will be that he's the red herring and she tries to set him up to be the killer. Then, when Lianne -- I mean the Real Killer -- is revealed it will be twice as bad because she wasn't expecting it at all AND she will have betrayed the one person that totally trusted her with his feelings.


                        Then next season has a fabulous triangle where everyone is broken-hearted and oddly sympathetic.

                        I have a long theory about Lilly's last day. Since this is a mystery, everybody should have ample opportunity and reason to kill Lilly.

                        Speculation with Spoilers through the Sneak Preview scene up at

                        Lilly starts out the day with Veronica at the car wash. She has a secret. It's Weevil (and maybe something else). Lilly meets up with Weevil or Logan after leaving Veronica. If she meets up with Logan, he confronts her about her new boytoy (the identity of whom he doesn't entirely know) and he scares Lilly by threatening her or handling her in a rough/inappropriate manner. She meets up with Logan and Weevil in quick succession, I'm not sure the order.

                        Lilly has a tryst with Weevil. If she's seen Logan first, she tells Weevil that Logan scared her. If she didn't (which is my guess), she puts something to that effect in a note in the pen that Weevil later steals. This is why Weevil is watching out for Veronica in relation to Logan, why he tells Logan not to touch Veronica 'like he did Lilly' and why (next week) Veronica learns that Logan was a threat to Lilly (and was in town the day she died).

                        Now, things get a little murkey from here because we don't know where Lilly was when she got her picture taken while running the light. My spec is that Lilly knew Veronica is/might be a Kane (based on the fact that Lilly told Veronica to drop the Duncan thing). I think Lilly was doing her own little investigation (of her father or maybe of Celeste) in order to get Duncan & Veronica back together or to make Veronica her "real" sister. Either way, Lilly might see this as a good thing (and a thing to make Celeste CRAZY).

                        I think Lilly saw something or threatened something that day, whether her parents saw her there or not.

                        I think Lianne slipped away from the hotel (in her story to Veronica she claimed to note that Celeste left the hotel 20 minutes after storming in -- how the hell would she know? Did she stand outside waiting her turn?) and took care of Lilly, for whatever (as yet) odd reason.

                        I also still think the Kanes think Duncan did it (as they found him covered in his sister's blood and crrrazy) poolside (or wherever her body started out). That's why they covered it up.

                        I have NO idea why Jake was still seeing Lianne months later.

                        They have a LOT of ground to cover in this last episode, IMO.
                        Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.


                        • Waaaaay too much to cover for a finale! I'm so worried they will rush things and jam them in every which way!

                          I still think Lianne's motive centers on Veronica. We have been shown no evidence that Lianne cares abut anything other than Veronica and the hooch. I can't recall anything to indicate that she truly "cares" on a gut level about either Keith or Jake (and sleeping with them obviously has nothing to do with it), but she has shown true emotion and fear when confronted with the possibility of losing Veronica.

                          I've been speccing that Lianne and Jake were *together* when Celeste busted them at the hotel (Maybe they just tap into their hormonal teenagery-ness around each other - and if there was Kyle Secor hotness to be had, why weren't we shown *that* in a flashback?), Celeste goes ballistic, Lianne threatens the paternity suit which would destroy Celeste's pefect little world, Jake says fine, I've been meaning to tell you that I think I should take Veronica away from you anyway (because of the hooch?), and Lianne leaves in a panic while Celeste and Jake continue to argue about that. Saying that Celeste left 20 mins later without Jake was just Lianne trying to throw suspicion onto the woman she hates.

                          I think Lilly was in the car running the redlight either going to, or returning from her Weevil tryst. Lianne goes off and gets drunk(er) and decides that if Jake is going to take away *her* daughter, she is going to take away his. She goes to the Kane estate, finds Lilly and tries to get Lilly to come with her. A tussle ensues, and Lilly dies accidentally.

                          Duncan comes home, the Kanes see duncan discovering Lilly, voila! cover-up time.

                          Lilly's secret is related but not important to the murder . . .she did discover V's father to not be Jake (well, all the cool kids are doing secret DNA testing these days), and she was happy to bring Duncan and V back together again. OR the secret was just that she had decided to ditch Logan for Weevil for good.

                          For Fox's sake I'm going to put spec from the upn preview and the trailer in here: And the video stuff? Um . . . a red herring maybe? Could be that it's video from Lilly's room that shows Logan confronting Lilly about her unknown lovah and that's makes with the angst. Although, here's a thought! Can't remember where I heard this, but didn't RT say that everything you need to know to solve the murder was in the pilot or something like that? Well, Logan taunts V about her mom's drinking in the pilot, and I was kind of wondering if that was significant. Like maybe he saw her mom arriving at the Kane estate (or driving to it) as he was leaving after having his blow-out with Lilly, and he could tell she was soused. That would stick in someone's mind. And the Kanes somehow also know Lianne was in the vicinity so they assume that she might have seen Duncan kill Lilly- hence running her out of town and meeting up with her later (to threaten her/pay her off- subsequently spent on hooch, of course. I mean we never found out where Lianne was getting her hooch money while she was gone.)

                          Additional spec based on the clip and trailer: Veronica is going to turn in the video which incriminates Logan and he is going to be arrested. Once she learns the whole truth, she is going to have choose between her mother and Logan. Being a gray kind of heroine, she will choose to cover up her mom's involvement much as the Kanes tried to cover up for Duncan, and will decide NOT to turn in her mom to get Logan released. He will be released anyway (something Aaron does/finds?), but he will know that she chose her mom the killer over him. And. Her. Choice.Will.Change.Everything.
                          Last edited by ophy; 05-04-2005, 01:42 PM.


                          • In both the and description for next week's ep they make a point of saying that Veronica has to betray someone close to her (UPN even says, someone she cares deeply about). Right now I think that must be Wallace, Keith or Logan. I actually hope it's Logan b/c that will set up an awesome angst fest for next season (assuming he's not the killer, which he's not b/c it's LIANNE). But if it is Keith or Wallace,

                            Heh, Keenai, much like you, the relationships that I care the MOST about on this show are the friendship ones. And along those lines, how do you feel about the revelation that Logan drugged Duncan, in terms of what it will do to their friendship? Will it be more or less of an impact than the fact that Logan called V his girlfriend?


                            • I don't know! The drugging should be pretty big since it led to Duncan having sex with Veronica. And who drugs their friends unwillingly? That's so crap. Man.

                              But. Shouldn't V be off limits to Logan? These crazy TV kids and their definitions of what's acceptable in friendships! Especially since Logan and Duncan are still BFF? Then again, if she is Duncan's sister (*gavomit*), does that make her okay to date? It's all so confusing!

                              Is it sad that I'm still pulling for Duncan and Veronica to work something out? Poor things.

                              OH. I read a theory that maybe V was making with the happy-kissy to get out to that room of magic and find something out. So a set-up of sorts? And that the cameras clicked something in her brain, but not necessarily freaked her about Logan? I DO NOT KNOW. I am not smart enough for season long mysteries. Hee.


                              • I think I've said before that I was originally rooting for D/V to work things out, and I was feeling that a bit last night b/c omg was he ever HOT with the scruff. And the inappropriate sex is WAY more twisted here than it was on Lost (but everything about this show is better than Lost.) Still I tend to think that they will NOT end up being siblings and there will be a big angsty love triangle next year.

                                It's hard to exclusively ship anybody on this show b/c Kristen Bell oozes chemistry with everybody and L/V are also hot. I think V/Weevil would be amazing also.

                                Oh also, I agree that much like the secret notes thing, something clicked about the Lilly murder when she saw the cameras. preview spoiler It looks like she finds something in a vent in Lilly's room, possibly there was a camera there that nobody else knew about and V was reminded of it when she saw Logan doing that trick to get the key to the liquor cabinet. But I hadn't thought about V faking the happiness... that would fit better b/c I still think it's weird that she was totally into hooking up with Logan so soon after finding out what happened to her.
                                Last edited by BreezyK; 05-04-2005, 04:56 PM.