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  • I don't think every monster show works this way, actually. Yes, we don't usually care about the villains outside The Circle. Fine. I can accept that vampires without souls are meant for Buffy to stake. But humans were generally off-limits. When Faith killed a human it was A Big Deal.

    On Angel, the morality was always comparatively gray. But they tried to fight for the good.

    This show has always been a good deal edgier than that and it's always bothered me. Humans are meaningless, being a vampire is kind of meaningless (except when it's not). Immortality just gives you license to be a little bitch across centuries and never get a grasp of the bigger picture of the human condition. I feel like this show has no greater themes or ideas than Protect Elena and Her Friends. And that's ok. But it will always feel like a smaller endeavor to me because of it.
    Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.

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    • I can accept that vampires without souls are meant for Buffy to stake. But humans were generally off-limits. When Faith killed a human it was A Big Deal.
      Well, yeah. Buffy and Faith were essentially (super)human, not monsters. They operated under human morality.


      On Angel, the morality was always comparatively gray.
      Right, it was grayer because our Hero was a monster. Whenever he would go all Angelus he got to cause mayhem to whomever, and when he was back to being Angel again, he was forgiven quickly. But! Angel was trying to Save The World. So I get that TVD will always be a 'smaller' show in that sense.

      I think it's meant to be a vampire soap opera, not anything epic, you know? Soap operas also care nothing about the people (background extras) who aren't the People We Are Suppose To Care About. Soap operas say nothing about the larger human condition, and we don't expect them to. TVD is the same.They aren't making a show about saving the world, they are making a show about the trials and tribulations of a small group of people monsters and that is all. As Plec and KW have said, this show is about Family (with a capital 'F', not about Humanity with a capital 'H'). That's the theme . . . how monsters come together and learn to care about the others in their Family, and the sacrifices they make to do so. So in that sense, it's not failing at anything.

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      • I'm now firmly on the side of keeping Steroline as friends. I love them.

        Damon and Enzo are about a millionth as interesting as Klefan.
        Bitter Shipper

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        • I feel like we have seen all of this before. When Stefan went dark, it was awesome because we had never seen it before. This Damon stuff just feels like a tedious rehash of what we have already seen from Damon. I just can't seem to care about it.


          Poor Stefan. It took him so long to see what was going on with Katherine, because I think he WANTED it to be true with Elena. I really feel for him.
          Last edited by jennchum; 02-28-2014, 12:13 PM.

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          • (Side note: I just realized why this argument is so familiar. It's basically the theme of This is not a love song, duh. Caroline thinks she is dragging Klaus on a journey of self discovery with the hopeful end result of teaching him to love Humanity and 'fixing' him to be more human . . . but it's actually her journey of self discovery, where she has to learn how to let go of Humanity, while still maintaining her decency. Caroline learns that they can't live like humans, or love like humans because they are monsters and they carry monstrous baggage. But it's okay! Monsters can still be good people, even though they can't *be* people. She doesn't 'fix' Klaus, but they come to a workable compromise, which is really the only way for Klaroline to have a Happy Ending.)


            Damon and Enzo are about a millionth as interesting as Klefan.
            No argument here!

            KLEFAN IS LOVE.






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            • Price recap for 5.14: http://www.tv.com/shows/the-vampire-...-139354423721/

              This season of The Vampire Diaries has seemed, well, all over the place. I still cannot believe how much time was wasted on such a truly terrible villain like Silas, nor how underdeveloped the Augustine stuff has been so far. But the biggest mistake this season made was trying to be a throwback to Season 1 while also throwing all the old character dynamics in a blender. Those fundamental romances and friendships everyone's always so worked up about? I think I miss them too. In making all the leads constantly break up and then find love in somebody else's arms, it feels like romantic inbreeding and, well, stagnant storytelling. I truly do not want to see a show where a Nina Dobrev character goes back and forth between the two Salvatores. I know that's in the DNA of the show at this point, but it's okay to question the DNA of this show right? Now TVD has the option of either holding strong to what is proving to be a very flawed premise OR it can figure out how to engage its audience without the ever-diminishing returns of yanking the carpet out from under viewers.

              What am I saying here? I guess I'm saying that TVD seems to have stripmined all the romantic potential from the three leads (and Caroline) and should probably look elsewhere for sources of emotional angst. Like, don't give me a Stefan-Caroline hookup when I'd rather each of them fall in love with a new character (or not at all!). I know writers love to double-down on the leads' romances and everyone's afraid of another Nikki/Paolo situation, but still. I'm feeling restless! But honestly, what do I know? I'm very much an outlier when it comes to this fanbase. I still love the rhythms and comedy and violence and characters of TVD but I'm increasingly disengaged from what's going on. I want to be scared again. I want to curious. I want to sit up and cheer for people. Lately I've just been sitting there, accepting one half-hearted storybeat after another. Where is this season going, exactly? Why am I supposed to care? WHERE IS JEREMY?
              Yeah, he's struggling with S5 just as much as we all are. Individually, the eps have been entertaining. As a whole extended season long narrative, not so much.

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              • Nadia's death was so very painful! I cried buckets. I really thought they'd save her, and put Katherine inside her on a time-share basis.

                I thought I'd be more moved by Katherine's 'end'? But I don't know, this just didn't feel final to me. Maybe I'm in denial or something. I just don't see what they will gain narratively if they shut the door on a chaos agent character like Katherine for good.

                Perhaps the weird way she was dragged off actually had to do with the travelers. Maybe they won't let her cross over because they need her for something, in which case this is not Katherine's end at all.

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                • I couldn't get invested in Katherine because I just can't imagine that she is actually gone. It would be just stupid to get rid of her. I just don't get it. IF she is gone, that was a pathetic send off for one of the most loved characters of the show's entire run. I'm not getting this season at all.

                  I think they need to bring Stefan, Damon, and Elena back together. They keep spinning them off on different personality changes, instead of having the group work together to fight a common enemy. Which I think is much more fun. I'm not a fan of this lather, rinse, repeat of one of them being off the rails at all times. It was fun the first time around, but now we are just recycling.

                  Can't everyone on the show just be themselves for five minutes? I'm tired. I miss Human Elena. There. I never thought I would say it, but I really do.
                  Last edited by jennchum; 03-06-2014, 11:08 PM.

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                  • I think you said it very well with the "lather, rinse, repeat of one of the being off the rails". That's what I have been feeling too and I haven't been able to get into this series at all. It does seem like plot devices are just being recycled. The first two series were great as it was the core group against the next big bad, and even though the core still had issues they came together, you saw their camaraderie and closeness. This series just seems to be flying all over the place as if the writers can't get a grip on the characters. I'm pretty meh about this season as you can tell. And to kill off Katherine - argh she was fun, bad, sneaky and the best villain they had had, whilst I would have preferred her out of Elena's body couldn't they have thought of something else to do with her rather than killing her off - transfer her into someone else, anything.

                    I don't miss human Elena as I thought she was a bit of a boring and moralistic drip but was hoping she would get a lot spunkier when becoming a vampire and... Nope she was still a boring drip. When they made Caroline a vampire they gave her more fire, passion and the ability to stand on her own two feet than they did with Elena (and a lot of pretty good one liners).

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                    • This was terrible.

                      The Nadia parts were moving because it was sad that Nadia had a life entirely lacking in real love. And it lasted 500 years. Her mother didn't love her, not even at the end when she chose her own safety over begging Klaus to save Nadia. So, yeah, Katherine's still The Worst and wasn't redeemed in the least. She did own it, though, which is cool. She was speechifying like an asshole seconds after Nadia died. In the end, Nadia was basically just another way Katherine can feel sorry for herself, an excuse for her to be awful.

                      Everyone standing around while she pontificates was silly fanfiction territory for me. And now Damon and Elena will want to kill each other and everybody else. *snore*
                      Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.

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                      • According to Dries, Katherine is just gone for good.

                        They thought they needed to make at least one big death stick (because Jeremy and Bonnie's deaths did not), so they chose Katherine. I am rageful about this. I would trade twenty Bonnies and Jeremys for one Katherine. The show does NOT need more morally 'pure' lawfully good characters who just react and angst and react again, it needs characters like Katherine who get shit done and stir shit up and MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. Even if you thought Katherine was a big ol' skank, you have to admit that knowing that you didn't know when she would pop in and cause mayhem was one of the key ingredients to keeping the show interesting. Every time 'Elena' would start behaving a bit un-Elena-like, there was a chance that it was actually Katherine, and that was VERY COOL. What they just did was not very cool. They shut the door on all that potential.

                        I get that it was one of those deaths which was an easy win for the whole behind the scenes team, though. It was a way to kill off a major character without actually firing anyone or forcing a tight knit family to say good bye to one of their own. It saves a ton of money production-wise, and probably takes a burden off their leading lady.

                        But story-wise! This was just not a great move. They set up all these redemption possibilities for Katherine this season and completely failed to take advantage of any of them to the fullest. Totally half-assed the whole damn thing.

                        (I haven't even touched upon what this does to my poor Steferine heart. Except that it seems ever more likely that they are shutting all of the doors around Stefan and Caroline one by one to make Steroline the next will-they-won't-they.)

                        But hey, we've got more Traveler stuff to look forward to the rest of the season! Oh, yay.




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                        • Not gonna lie, the more hacky the show itself gets, the more I start to lose interest in the cast gossip as well. And the fandom! We can get an ep that, while very dramatic and with some touching moments, was overall a bit of a CRIME AGAINST FUTURE STORYTELLING, and all they can do is squee and squee because Damon and Elena are going to kiss in the next ep. It's all hearts and rainbows on Twitter and Tumblr, and meanwhile Katherine is just gone. Nobody seems to care that Katherine is gone. (Maybe I was the only one who cared anyway? *sob*)

                          D/E was always the couple that made the most sense to me from a narrative perspective, but Steferine was the noise that my heart made.

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                          • I hate Somerhalder's acting so much this season. He's way better when pretending not to care. Even if Stefan is too bland for me in a pairing, I'm about ready to get SE back together and have him throw out quips while sittin' pretty

                            There's just no way in my mind they won't bring Kat back. The whole dramatic exit thing just means it'll be a while imo. I love the nickname Matty Blue and what Kat told him. Other then that Liv the witch scamming on Jeremy right in front of Bonnie was a bit of fun.

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                            • I guess I do have to give them some props for this bit of poetic bookending:







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                              • I loved when he knifed her (even though she's a vampire so how did knifing her kill her? I'm unclear).

                                Shipping ruins shows! We know this!

                                Steroline is my only hope now.
                                Itís just really honestly so tiring and emotionally draining to have to get upset over reality constantly.

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